Trochoidal milling of steel

I have been trying to use trochoidal milling of steel and had some success and a lot of failures.

The first time I used it the cut came out okay, a bit slow, but a good finish.

Those settings I lost while trying to improve the settings, so I went to AI to get some help.

AI came back with settings that seem too fast for my liking, and I am afraid to try it out as I only have one cutter left.

Maybe some one on this forum can look at my tools and assist in getting the right settings.

The tool I have left is a 3mm carbide endmill, 4 flute and I am cutting into 8mm mild steel, air cooling and a bit of WD40 (applied by hand)

These are the screenshots of the main tools I am trying to use.

:eyes:

I won’t pretend to know how to give you the right settings…

but I expect some people will come to tell you 4 is too many…

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Found in a search:

For trochoidal milling, a 4-flute end mill is generally preferred over a 2-flute end mill due to its improved rigidity and ability to handle higher feed rates, which are critical for efficient trochoidal toolpaths. The 4-flute design provides better chatter suppression and surface finish, especially when machining harder materials like high-temperature alloys or hardened steels. Additionally, 4-flute end mills with variable pitch or unequal helix designs are specifically engineered to reduce vibration and enhance stability during high-speed milling operations, which are common in trochoidal milling.

However, 2-flute end mills are still used in certain trochoidal applications, particularly when working with softer materials like aluminum or non-ferrous metals, where their larger gullets allow for superior chip evacuation and prevent chip recutting. In deep axial trochoidal milling, 7-flute end mills are often recommended for their high efficiency and ability to maintain straight walls, but 4-flute tools remain a strong choice for a balance of performance and versatility.

Ultimately, while 4-flute end mills are typically better suited for most trochoidal milling scenarios due to their rigidity and performance in high-speed applications, the optimal choice depends on the material, depth of cut, and specific toolpath parameters. For hardened steels and dry machining, 6-flute end mills are also ideal for trochoidal milling, but 4-flute tools remain a top contender for general use.

I suspect that search might be making the assumption that you are milling with a $400k industrial CNC machine lol

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I bet your search is assuming a much slower spindle speed. You MIGHT be ok running your router as slow as possible. But I would think a 2 flute would be much better. I believe with steel you can get away with a much smaller chip to remove heat compared to wood, but I have no real world experiance to back that up.

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Tool Geometry Basics

Generally, tools with more flutes have a larger core and smaller flute valleys than tools with fewer flutes. More flutes with a larger core can provide both benefits and restrictions depending on the application. Simply put, a larger core is directly proportional to tool strength; the larger the core, the stronger a tool will be. In turn, a larger core also reduces the flute depth of a tool, restricting the amount of space for chips to exist. This can cause issues with chip packing in applications requiring heavy material removal. However, these considerations only lead us part way when making a decision on which tool to use, and when.

3, 5, and 8 flute end mills and their core sizes in relation to flute valleys

Material Considerations

Traditionally, end mills came in either a 2 flute or 4 flute option. The widely accepted rule of thumb was to use 2 flutes for machining aluminum and non-ferrous materials, and 4 flutes for machining steel and harder alloys. As aluminum and non-ferrous alloys are typically much softer than steels, a tool’s strength is less of a concern, a tool can be fed faster, and larger material removal rates (MRR) is facilitated by the large flute valleys of 2 flute tools.

Consequently, ferrous materials are typically much harder, and require the strength of a larger core. Feed rates are slower, resulting in smaller chips, and allowing for the smaller flute valleys of a larger core tool. This also allows for more flutes to fit on the tool, which in turn increases productivity.

end mill flute count comparisons

Recently, with more advanced machines and toolpaths, higher flute count tools have become the norm in manufacturing. Non-ferrous tooling has become largely centered on 3 flute tools. This has created a slight advantage over 2 flute tools by increasing productivity while still affording proper chip evacuation. The softness of non-ferrous materials affords a much deeper flute valley. As previously discussed, this allows the tool to be fed much faster than in ferrous materials. Adding an additional flute increases the productivity of the tool, while still affording machinists faster feed rates.

Ferrous tooling has taken a step further and progressed not only to 5 and 6 flutes, but up to 7 flutes and more in some cases. With a wider range of hardness, sometimes at the very top of the Rockwell hardness scale, many more flutes have allowed longer tool life, less tool wear, stronger tools, and less deflection. All of this results in more specialized tools for more specific materials. Material specific tooling combines proper flute counts with coatings that aid in lubricity and heat generation to ensure the most effective end mill possible in the material being machined. The end result is higher MRR and increased productivity across the entire range of ferrous materials that machinists will work with in their shops.

Understanding the differences between 2 flute and 4 flute end mills is essential for selecting the right end mill.

2 Flute End Mills

2 flute end mills are designed for milling grooves or slots in softer materials such as aluminum. They offer effective chip evacuation and higher material removal rates due to their larger gullet for enhanced chip clearance. Solid carbide 2 flute end mills, in particular, provide superior hardness, strength, and wear resistance, making them ideal for working with wood and aluminum.

When working with softer materials, 2 flute end mills are your go-to choice for roughing applications, ensuring efficient material removal and a quicker cutting speed. The larger chips generated by 2 flute end mills also contribute to their suitability for roughing operations.

4 Flute End Mills

4 flute end mills, on the other hand, are designed for harder materials such as steel, providing increased tool strength, smoother finishes, and higher feed rates than 2 flute end mills. They are more suitable for slotting applications on steel, stainless steel, high temperature alloys, and iron.

Four-flute end mills are well-suited for high-speed cutting of hard materials, such as iron, alloys, and other similar substances, due to their strong resistance to heat and their ability to cut more efficiently through the material’s microstructure. Enhancing the rate at which the metal is taken away from the workpiece, 4 flute end mills are a great option for general-purpose cutting and finishing work.

Definitely. My dad is a traditional machinist so talking about bits with him is interesting. He uses 4 flute endmills but on a milling machine going much slower than a trim router is capable of. Running a 4 flute endmill at 10000 RPMs just doesn’t make sense unless you have an insane feedrate.

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My machine has a 24000 RPM spindle.

but you need it to go like 2400 rpm…

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or…

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Note that your screenshot is suggesting 188 METERS/minute which is 7 miles per hour which would mean that’s how fast of a feedrate you would need to get an appropriate chip load.

image

Edit: Maybe I’m interpreting that wrong. But the point stands that you would need ludacrous speed at 24000 RPM.

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Trochoidal milling of steel allows for significantly higher cutting speeds compared to conventional milling techniques. For case-hardened steel (16MnCr5), cutting speeds of up to 600 m/min can be achieved with trochoidal milling using a high-performance solid carbide cutter, compared to a maximum of around 200 m/min with conventional milling at a feed rate of 0.05 mm per tooth. Even when machining V2A steel, trochoidal milling enables cutting speeds of 250 m/min at a feed rate of 0.05 mm per tooth, substantially higher than the 60 to 100 m/min possible with conventional methods. These improvements are due to reduced tool contact, lower cutting forces, and better heat dissipation, as the wrap angle is limited to a maximum of 70° instead of the 180° seen in conventional milling. The technique also allows for deeper cuts, with cutting depths of up to 2×D achievable, and benefits from high spindle speeds, which are essential for maximizing productivity and tool life. The use of specialized tooling, such as those with unequal spacing and innovative geometries, further enhances performance by reducing vibration and enabling operation at extremely high spindle speeds

Heck, I only run rapids on my laser cutter at 60 metres per minute.

If I’m not mistaken… ( and I might be… )… I thought cutting speed was the speed at the outside of the toolhead? combination of bit diameter and rpm??

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I think you’re right.

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Yes, this.

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i mean… toolhead ain’t the right word… but I’m doing stuff with printers too right now… end mill…

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What’s with the nonstop internet quoting (or AI regurgitation thereof)?

24000 RPM is too fast a spindle speed for any reasonable attempt at what you’re trying to achieve.

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I have been searching for answers as it seems there is little knowledge available about this subject.