You need to install the latest version of the WebUI. One of the updates I made was so it shrinks the panels to the needed space.
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The tough part for me is I am not understanding why they are moving things so much. My interactions are minimal. I drive to a spot once, that is only 100mm or so away, and run a gcode file, this involves a resume from probing. If I knew why people are doing so much UI interacting, it might make more sense.
If I am making more than one of something I even automate the moving part, so then I just hit start, resume from probe and I am done.
I completely agree from a phone is not ideal but it is way better than a skr LCD. I do feel a 7-8" tablet would be much better. Jason’s mods are a must.
I do feel like a bluetooth device added to that chain would probably satisfy most people, provided the screen timeout was adjusted. If it was a dedicated $35 7-8" tablet it would connect automatically and timeout would be preset. (I need to demonstrate this so people can see it in action before building a wired pendant with a 240x180 ui)
Beyond that a wired pendant just seems to be what some people want, maybe because that is how the 90’s machines used to be.
For me it just feels better. Also, as I said before: I can just work with the Primo at school like that after turning it on without a mobile, tablet or whatever. Ideally, I don’t want to use the web UI. 
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I know there are standout use cases I am trying to get a sense of the majority that I can try to solve a problem for.
The pendant lets you start a file and move the machine, but lacks the terminal that comes in handy sometimes. The $35 tablet method lets you choose any pendant style you want but lacks the start a file without touching the webui.
I truly understand both but have not come up with a solution on how to proceed.
As I see it today
Level 1 YBR- use what you have(phone, tablet laptop, old PC), AP mode, All webui.
Level 2 - “dedicated device”, perhaps a bluetooth add-on. autoconnect, buttons and joystick or rotary.
Level 3 - Pendant.
Level 4 Hardcore mode - wired Sender typically to a computer.
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More like I need to lay out some options since I strongly feel like a pendant is not the best option for most but gets recommended the most because I have not laid out the other options very clearly.
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True. 
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Maybe that’s the reason why I don’t like the UI, I started wired and am still using it on my main machine.
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I started at Level 1 of course. I am wanting to upgrade to Level 2 or Level 4, which is what I am currently researching. For me Level 3 is just extra work. Level 2 is cheap, easily source-able, low patience requirement and multi use. Level 4 is a nice to have for me. Don’t really NEED it but would definitely not mind just cutting to the chase and doing that. If I found the right deal or whatever.
Just my 2 cents. Hopefully that helps. Poll maybe?
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The poll is just us, power users, for the most part. I am trying to get a sense of the general user.
We are getting close.
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My frequent use case for moving around is to find / move to a spot on a used piece of sheet goods that fits whatever it is that I want to cut today. Often I cut big things out of a sheet and then cut a bunch of small, unrelated (different projects), things out of the scraps some time later.
I typically jog a bunch to get as close to the edge of the previous projects’ cuts as possible to limit material waste.
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I’m known to grab off-cuts or ‘scrap’ from various sources and use that for making things, so this is a workflow that I use too.
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I wonder if that might be the difference? Using the machine for production with a relatively well packed job vs little bits and pieces?
I know that with the MPCNC and laser cutter I’m almost always doing weird little one-offs or using whatever happens to be laying around so there’s a lot more stuffing around and setup work than there would be otherwise. A pendant for the laser cutter would have been amazing, the interface on that was kinda garbage. Menu to choose the movement speed then press 2 buttons simultaneously to move in X or Y.
My workflow with that was to move the head, set the home point, run the outline, adjust the position so it’d maximize material usage, run the outline again, once I was happy then run the actual job. Lots of back and forth adjustments. Similar situation for the MPCNC… Put the workpiece in, jog around the perimeter to make sure I’m square and zeroed, then run the job etc.
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All of the above… eeking the lest square foot out of that sheet so i dont have to go get more right now when there is time to cut.
But much of the movement on the LR4 is just getting the gantry out of the way before and after a job to get to the workpiece. Plenty of times i drive it manually to rezero and reset to start again on experimental cut rates that dont quite cut it. I have an all in one pc on a shelf above the lr4. I use klipper so that works with a wireless mouse on the pc that has the web page up for movement, but i just ordered a couple wii remotes with the intent of making them serve as wireless pendants with tactile buttons similar to another one I made (youtube video could go here). Guess that makes it a level 4 setup.
I used marlin for 2 years on the mpcnc. The lcd screen just worked. It was challenging and frustrating at times, but consistent. For the newbies I’ve built with get the lcd until they want better. The advanced users get klipper.
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Yeah, squeaky wheel typically gets the grease, but isn’t always the right part to focus on improving.
Considered sending out a poll/questionnaire to all your Customers via the emails you have associated with their orders? For feedback on Pendants, User Experience and anything else that helps you prioritize what things to invest in next. Hopefully you have an easy way to do this.
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I think just a clear list of options might really help. From there we will probably get user vids pretty quick.
Then it will be easy to show the strengths and weaknesses of each method. Basically an expanded version of my previous list with pictures, and eventually video links.
I wanted to solve the problem but I can never solve it for everyone even if I can make a super cheap pendant, I just don’t think that is the solution for most users. I will get started on this list soon.
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I have a strong feeling this will be the winner honestly.
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Bluetooth device with rotary/buttons/joystick that pairs with Tablet/Phone, that relies on the Table/Phone to connect to JackPot via regular web app over Wifi. Where the Bluetooth HID device simulates key/mouse/other commands?
Personally like the approach of documenting/suggesting multiple levels, but strongly encouraging the straight forward yellow brick road path for maximizing success for Customers who are getting started on their journey into this space.
So for me, i really need to use mine more. I am a joystick kind of guy. When i go to find a corner i would rather use a joystick not guess 100mm 10mm 1mm moves… Just preference. That is all. Nothing more. Not a huge deal, that is why i want a joystick. Just my story.
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Go figure, im removing the dsp controller on a cnc ( really old controller) for a 6 pack. Im thinking about the pendant for that machine but keeping a cnc kiosk using one of my tablets.
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I don’t think these are in the right order. If your dedicated device was actually super easy, then maybe it would be first. But right now something like that depends on getting the wifi working first and having a phone or computer connected consistently to work.
I know your customers are not the same as 3d printers. But I see a lot of 3dp manufacturers increase complexity with:
- screens first, which is the closest to a pendant
- Then a cloud connected app (which eliminates all the LAN issues for them
- Then a hardwired connection
- Then a LAN/wifi connection
The sysiphus app and the oasis app will both guide the cell phone through by first connecting via bluetooth to the table, then configuring wifi, then finding the table on the LAN without making the user open their router or connect to an IP address or have DNS set up. I assume they do this by either sending the ip over bluetooth or more likely through mDNS. They have an advantage of being able to connect by bluetooth for the initial setup. I think chromecast audio also does something similar. If something like that were possible in an app, and the connection was reliable, I could see that being a good YBR. I still see a ton of questions about connection in those forums though.
To be clear, I think the YBR is AP mode right now. I am more focused on mid-future ideal mode of control. Not the past or present. Not the very far in the future.
It seems like every machine should be capable of webui and wired grbl sender connections, but the YBR should be similar to the rep rap discount full graphic display. A wired pendant that you can just plug in and it will work. You should be able to do everything without the screen and some complex things (like changing the config or using the terminal) don’t have to be supported by the pendant. But for someone that buys a complete kit with the screen, they should only need to connect a computer for the initial setup and maybe once or twice a year to tweak something. Daily use should be possible to do on either interface.
There is a good metaphor is some other product. I can’t think of it though. Sort of like buying a nintendo switch, but the TV dock is an optional accessory. Except the switch comes with a dock.
This may be controversial and I may just be repeating myself. There are real technical, cost, and supply chain problems with the existing pendant designs. So I will be quiet unless I have something new to say.
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