I guess ‘advice’ is the most appropriate place to post this.
As some of you may know, Cam is currently in the midst of an ‘intellectual property dispute’ regarding the Compass handheld router.
So far, so bad.
The dispute means the kits due back in October cant be sent out to customers. Cam cant say when the dispute will resolve as procedings havent reached Court yet.
Now, this is where I would appreciate advice/input.
Should I cut my losses and pursue a refund? In emails Cam admits to not being transparent which is a big red flag to me. Am also unsatisfied with other aspects of the story.
Hey y’all, thanks for bringing this up @lord-zardoz. I was hoping to update y’all once there had been a more concrete resolution to this whole dispute, but alas it is important info to know. It’s a super frustrating situation — for everyone involved.
To sum everything up and get y’all up to speed with what all of the customers now know: I’m currently in an intellectual property dispute with another company in this space. They allege that the current version of the Compass kit infringes their IP and are demanding that I stop promoting and selling this version of the product. I’ve engaged counsel and we’ve been working to resolve the matter, but the path forward is still uncertain. While I remain convinced that Compass is not infringing (and have plenty of evidence to back this up), fully fighting this in court would be far beyond my budget.
The good news (and also the frustrating part) is that the kits are here — they’re built and sitting in my garage, ready to go. The bad news is that, because of this dispute, I need to pause shipment of the current design until there is a clear resolution.
In the meantime, I feel terrible for making everyone stick through this. I hate having to keep pushing back ship dates (especially since there have already been manufacturing delays as well), and having to stall for legal stuff really just sucks. I can’t thank everyone enough for the patience they’ve had while I’ve been working through this. And of course, if this situation ultimately means I can’t move forward with shipping, everyone will certainly be refunded. I’ll make another post once things are fully resolved, so stay tuned. I’m hoping to have more concrete answers very soon.
Dealing with all of this legal stuff has honestly been taking a big toll on me. Being part of this community — and seeing how excited people are about accessible, open-source tools — is what’s kept me going through all of this. Thank you tons
I guess the litigant has the whip hand here. Can anyone guess what the issue could be? I thought ‘open source’ meant exactly that? Could it be the sensor thingys from the mice? Perhaps the terms of sale forbid any repurposing.. I am not a tech expert, more a woodworker so am guessing.
And in lieu of transparency guessing is all I can do.
As soon as lawyers get involved, everything becomes extremely difficult. Any public words become part of the case. Patent law is nothing like criminal law. None of us can pretend to know what is actually happening, or what minute wording in a legally vague patent they are disputing.
Yes…and no. Even if you are 100% sure you are not you still have to go through the court system, you have to be able to pay for it up front until you win. As far as I know, once you win you then have to open another case to recoup lost earnings and legal fees, pay for that up front and add that to the new case. If you find a firm to take on your case for a fee, they will take a significant portion of your winnings.
Patent law seems so extremely backwards to me, it is guilty until you can pay to prove yourself innocent. Even then one side can ask for extensions and continuations and draw things out so long you can never get back that momentum as a small company.
Look, there is no point in speculation here. When he can legally talk about the details I am sure he will, if allowed to. All I can say is have some grace here, this has already caused significant delays. As a new company trying to ship the very first kits this is absolutely devastating. I have supported Cam since the day I met him, he has the spark and passion for this project and I want nothing more than for this to be a thing in the real world, even if it “takes” some of my potential customers. This is cool tech and worth waiting for. Developing the hardware, developing the firmware, the tool chain, the documentation, the web presence, supply chain, prototypes is all already hard enough with a legal issue hanging over your head.
If you bought a kit from the very first batch from any company you have to expect a new company to have delays, he has said refunds are on the table, what more can you ask for. I have been at it for more than ten years and I am 3 days away from being out of stock on lr4 kits and my brand new jp3 boards are 3 weeks late. Stuff happens, and I have experience with all these vendors, products and have the entire infrastructure in place, CAM is brand new to all of this.
Cam I am sorry you have to go through any of this. I hope this can come to a speedy end and this tech gets to continue to exist. I know you have done your homework here, so keep your chin up we are all rooting for you!
Thank you so much for the kind words and support guys. It really means a lot.
@vicious1 summed things up pretty well. I’m not in the best situation right now, and I’m trying hard not to do anything that could make it worse. My goal is to put Compass — and everyone who’s supported it — in the best possible position at the end of this.
If you’d be so gracious as to give me another week or two to get things all sorted before I say more publicly, I’d really appreciate it. There’s nothing I’d like more than to share every last detail about what’s been happening, but until there’s a concrete resolution, doing that would just make the situation even more complicated.
This royally sucks man! What a bummer to have to be stalled and then to must spend all that energy and money to fight this case. I hope it doesn’t drag and drag on for you!
I understand you can’t say anything right now, seems like that 2 weeks before you can spill more details is that you are working onto some more resolution. I am curious which party is getting after you. If it’s a sensor and motor thing or if it’s the whole concept that is locked down (like the other known brands)..
Great news if it’s all going to be over before Christmas, but that’s what they said in 1914.
Yes, it’s difficult not to be curious. Projects like this do attract those that wonder about things! Knowing if the sensors are particular to branded mice (proprietory) or are the components freely available would be useful. Anyone know?
But if it’s the whole concept of handheld micro-corrrective cnc that’s patented then the project is royally fucked. Lots of folks out there wasting time on a scheme going nowhere. I doubt it’s that - Cam described the matter as a minor hiccup in one of the emails.
This is all so frustrating to read! I need to be very clear, this is not what the legal system is supposed to be! So many people lose everything because they cannot afford to win, even though they are legally in the right! So very sorry to hear this all! If only there was a “open source” lawyer that could afford to take on these with no cost to peope like Cam, maybe this would slow down. But until then, it will continue. So very sorry Cam!
Good luck @camchaney ! The fact that someone(s) investing time and resources setting back your progress is a good signal you’ve made something great imo.
Agree. Obviously IANAL, and know AI responses are not appreciated by some, still…
Most Common Successful Defenses Used by Indie Open-Source Kit Projects
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Defense Strategy
Legal Basis
Why It Works in Practice
Cost Level
Typical Outcome
1
Design-Around (Claim Avoidance)
Patent claims
Removes one required claim element so infringement fails
