Starter Oscilloscope

Hi all,

A couple of years ago, on the discord for my printer build, I got some great advice to get a multimeter I could trust. There were a couple of suggestions, and I watched a few reviews. I settled on an Extech EX505 and I love it.

So now I’ve seen how useful an oscilloscope can be, and I’ve been interested to watch a few YouTube videos. However, most of the 'scopes appear to be out of my hobby price range at the moment.

Do you have any suggestions for a good solid starter oscilloscope (I’ll probably never need anything too advanced)? I’m understanding my own challenges in some of the testing I’m doing. Two probes, then power cycling or “doing something” only to realize that the lag on the multimeter doesn’t really answer my question.

Again - super basic stuff for those of you that do this for a living. Just curious if there are any budget friendly oscilloscopes worth the time.

I got a rigol (I can check the model), I also got a USB one that I have not used yet (worried it will do everything I need and prove I wasted money on the big one).

https://amzn.to/3tfZCoN - I have not used it too much but when I have it was worth it. I just used it last night to watch some funky boots from bad ESP32’s.

I bet something like this would do far more than I need, https://amzn.to/3RE08X8

That Rigol one is the one already in my wishlist :slight_smile:

The nice thing about the USB one is it is easy to screenshot the results when you don’t know how to read them :stuck_out_tongue:

My son expressed interest in an oscilloscope. I’ve used pico technologies ones at work and love them.
So I bought him an entry level usb device.
Apparently he really wanted a desktop one with a display and lots of buttons / knobs, so he traded it for a Rigol. He loves it.
I say traded because I didn’t return the Pico - I kept it for myself, and I love that. I’m never far from a computer, my monitor is at least 10x bigger and my keyboard mouse are more familiar than all the rigol user interface.

Probably can’t go wrong either direction - but there is a big personal preference difference.

I got the rigol through tequipement. Best prices at the time and good customer service. I think I got the pico on Amazon.

Yeah, I think the interface would be nice on a computer. The rigol takes me a while each time I use it to remember how to do certain things, and cycling through menus is kind of a bummer.

whoops I was wrong.

Resident lurking Electrical Engineer here. In my experience, it massively depends on what you’re doing.

For logic/comms stuff, the USB ones can be quite good. They tend to be higher performance per $ spent but work best when you’re not having to frequently adjust settings. They’re also typically less hassle to integrate into other stuff and automate using python scripts or whatever, but that usage may be a little more ‘niche’ from a hobby perspective.

For general use, I would always strongly recommend starting with a cheap standalone unit. You’ll be constantly adjusting timebase, channel gain, voltage offset, trigger level and direction, etc. to hunt for the parts of signals that you’re looking for. It’s a tool used for insight so making it easy and quick to gain those insights is the name of the game, really.

There are a few key specs to watch out for, especially with the cheaper ones. In general, I say to buy more bandwidth than you need because ideally you want it to be 10x higher than the fundamental signal you’re looking at. This is because any signal that doesn’t look like a sine wave has much higher frequency components in it. A 10MHz SPI bus has plenty of 100MHz signal components if you want the edges to look ‘crisp’, which you do if you’re trying to find out why your SPI bus isn’t working and it may be because you’ve got glitches on those rising/falling edges.
Sample depth is hugely important and in genera more is always better. This lets you take a longer capture once triggered and then ‘zoom in’. It’s kinda like the equivalent of having a higher resolution camera and being able to zoom digitally. You don’t want to have to frame everything up perfectly every time, so deeper sample depth lets you ‘see’ more. I would aim for something in the mega-point range, but
Waveform capture rate/update rate is another huge one. This is basically how often the scope can trigger. It can be pretty important for making the tool easy to use, especially if you’re looking for faults. Have a low update rate means that you may only see every 10th time the scope triggers, so if something happens rarely, you’re not likely to see it.

There are also a bunch of other useful features that it might be worth considering, like digital channels, comms bus decode, extra channels, some advanced triggering options, on-screen FFT performance, waveform generation output, that kind of thing. Some of those will ever be as good as a standalone unit so we don’t tend to focus on those features as much on the more expensive end, but on the cheaper end it can be quite useful because you’re less likely to buy a standalone waveform generator, for instance. On the other hand, a cheap USB logic analyzer may be a better bet for less money than adding it to the scope. The best thing about a mixed signal scope vs an analog scope and separate digital logic analyzer is that you get all the information on the same screen and synchronized which can be useful.

It’s also worth being careful because at the low end, especially if you stray from the ‘known’ brands, it’s possible to save a small amount of money by losing a LOT of capability.

Another thing that’s worthwhile considering is that with scopes a lot of features are software locked, needing a license to unlock them. For certain models there are easy and safe ways to unlock these features without paying for them.

As for recommendations, Rigol is definitely the standard for gear on the low end. The 1000 series has some great units in it.
The DS1054Z is usually the de facto recommendation for a good entry level scope. 4 channels is nice, 50MHz is what I’d consider the bare minimum and the memory depth is pretty decent. Waveform capture rate is good. It’s hackable to get to 100MHz bandwidth.
The Siglent SDS1104X-E is also a 4 channel scope but with 100MHz bandwidth which is enough for the majority of situations. It also has good memory depth and an excellent waveform capture rate. It has better analog electronics so would be my pick over the Rigol, assuming the same price. I believe it’s also easily hackable to get to 200MHz bandwidth and I think some extra decode capabilities.
The GW Instek GDS-1054B is also a similar scope to the Rigol but at a cheaper price. 50Mhz, 4 channel, good memory depth, good waveform update rate, well regarded.

The EEVBlog community spends a LOT of time debating this kind of stuff, so that’s where I’d go if I were trying to decide between them. I try to avoid the place because I find the discourse a little bit too ‘aggressive’ and personal for my tastes. A few too many ‘engineering alpha wannabes’ crammed into the same space, I think :slight_smile:

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Good to hear I made a decent choice.

Jono, I have been poking at a few projects to try to learn some more easyeda things. Might need you to take a look at them if I get them finished.

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Sounds good. Just hit me up any time, I’m always lurking.

Yeah, definitely can’t go wrong with the Rigol. It’s interesting that you note the menus as being irritating, that’s definitely a common issue. I find the Siglent interface to be a bit nicer, but it’s hard to tell whether that’s because it’s actually better or if it’s just closer to the other gear I’m used to.

I wouldn’t worry about having both benchtop and USB units. I personally dislike USB scopes for most things, but there are definitely situations where they shine. Some of that likely comes from USB scopes not existing when I got started and a long history with using a benchtop unit. Some of it is that using a PC on a workbench or on equipment that you can’t easily move really sucks. Having the screen, controls and what you’re working on all within easy reach is the goal, and that’s a lot easier to achieve with a benchtop unit. If your experience follows mine then you’ll likely find you end up picking and choosing which to use in any given situation based on what’s easiest.

In my home setup I have a Keysight 3000 series mixed signal benchtop unit (4 analog + 16 digital), an older 2 channel picoscope, an 8 channel USB logic analyzer, several bus pirates, a random Sigrok compatible logic analyzer and some other random logic dev stuff like the I2Cdriver. Every single bit of equipment has stuff that it’s great at, stuff that it can do that’s awkward and stuff that it’s technically capable of but really not the intended use.

The digital channels on the scope are great because they can be used as triggers, they show alongside the analog channels and are super flexible for use with embedded hardware stuff, using digital lines to show software states etc… They’re better at detecting issues that can lead to malformed packets on comms links and they show timing issues that other things don’t. On the other hand, they suck for looking at what’s actually being transmitted over a comms link. They can decode it and do it, along with giving you a list of bytes on the bus, but it’s super awkward and manual try to and decode anything major.

On the other hand, the bus pirate is awesome for hooking up to a comms bus and actually talking to devices. You can easily have it sending and receiving bytes with zero effort. It’s also super cheap and readily accessible. The problem is that it doesn’t 100% adhere to comms specs and just outright refuses to talk to some things properly. That’s the type of issue you then need a scope or USB logic analyzer to identify and deal with.

I guess it’s similar to other tools. A socket set and ring spanners do the same job, but they’re not always interchangeable and for plenty of jobs it’s nice or even 100% necessary to have both.

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Ouch$$

Wow! And i was just thinking how nice it was to finally be learning electronics and then i read all of your stuff but onky followed half, lol. :thinking::grin:. Guess i have a lot more to learn :wink:

That’s probably still significantly more than most. As always, I’m happy to explain anything that I failed to make clear the first time through!

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Out of interest, what do you consider ‘budget friendly’ in this case? Most of the good entry-level options are in the $400-600 range. There are cheaper ones but there are enough compromises with them that I feel like they’re a false economy, if you know what I mean.

I guess it’s no different to any other form of hobby or craft. If you’re good at it, you can get by with crappy gear, but if you’re starting out you really kinda need something that has a basic level of performance. A master craftsman can probably make heirloom furniture with a hand saw, old plane and some chisels while I’m more of a thousands of dollars worth of tools to make a wonky bookshelf kinda guy…

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My dad was a radar technician in the navy. He never said it but i think he was a lil dissapointed (but proud at the same time) when i signed up to be a mechanic in the army!

It would be cool if he were still here to talk to him about everything i have learned. Now he was in during vietnam time so electronics would not have been the same, but i think we would have Had some interesting talks. He was getting the Heath kit catalogs when i was younger, and i always wanted to do something like that with him, but he never bought anything. We did fix ALOT of old tube radios together though!

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I learned something struggling mightily with a crappy multimeter a couple years ago and since I invested I’ve noticed it became a tool I enjoyed using. These are expensive enough that I don’t want to repeat a poor choice, with more frustration than utility.

The $400-600 range is reasonable for a hobby but I may need to look closely at my anticipated use cases. I guess I won’t know until I try something a bit more complex.

I worry the extra resistance of hooking up the USB scope would reduce use further. So I’m leaning toward standalone. I super appreciate the information you shared.

One other question is whether you have an opinion on buying something used? Will it be obvious if I receive a broken unit, or is it something where there could be significantly compromised performance that wouldn’t be evident until I’m stuck with a broken instrument?

To use your analogy. I’m sure you as an Electrical Engineer could spot a decent used instrument. But I may be too easy to accept broken or malfunctioning equipment.

I would not shy away from used, if you find a reputable calibrator to calibrate/verify it. There are alot of them around. Heck they may even have some they dont/ cant use anymore!!

That’s a pretty awesome memory to have, for sure!

Yeah, that’s definitely a universal experience! I have a couple of cheap multimeters that are my ‘I don’t care if I drop this down a hole’ ones, but even then I found out the hard way that they don’t warn me when the battery runs low, they just get super inaccurate!

That’s good, I think that’s definitely the place to start.

The scope I have at the moment is used but refurbished by Keysight. I’d definitely have no issue with that. There are also places that deal specifically in used test equipment which I would trust as they’re likely to have good checks.

Other than that, I’m 50/50 on the used route. Oscilloscopes are relatively sensitive pieces of test equipment and it’s very possible to abuse them. On the other hand, they’re also pretty easy to verify functionality of. Pretty much all scopes have a built in calibration waveform that you can connect the probes to and verify that you’re getting the correct voltage/frequency square wave out and as long as it has clean edges, you can be reasonably confident there’s nothing terrible wrong with it.

I guess another thing to consider is that scope technology has moved relatively quickly alongside other digital tech over the past decade to the point where there’s not likely to be ‘that’ much supply of gear that I would recommend. The prices have also come down significantly so it’s not likely to be a $250 used Rigol vs a $500 new Rigol, it might be a $500 used Tektronix vs a $500 new Rigol, likely with the same performance but just worse user experience on the older gear. Have a look around and feel free to post up anything that you’d like an opinion on.

It may be cheaper over there but here the calibration likely costs more than the scopes we’re discussing above, sadly. Thankfully I think as long as the waveforms on the internal calibration hookup look good then it’s probably pretty safe, outside of weird stuff like power supply issues or crashing.

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Thanks so much for sharing your expertise. You’ve given me a few more intelligent questions to consider as I explore this.