Rolling Plotter build

I took my plotter apart the other day and plan to do an assembly video just to do so. I picked up my new O-rings from Grainger, but they were the same as what I had. Either they sent me the wrong ones, or they were marked wrong on the website. I will call them & either return them or exchange them if they do indeed have 70A O-Rings.

While I had the machine apart, I was thinking of another option to drive the wheels with AWD (All Wheel Drive). I don’t plan to test this but thought I would add it to the blog in case someone else wants to try it. If you look at the attached image while reading this, it will probably make more sense. What I was thinking is this machine could probably be changed a little more to drive both wheels on each side by putting the 80T wheel gear near back plate instead of the front plate for one of the wheels on each side. I don’t know if there is any advantage to doing this as my 1st design did drive both wheels on each side, but in a different way. The first problem is your M8 rod would have to be 22mm longer than the aluminum extrusion you use, since the bearing that was on the inside of the back plate would now need to go to the outside of that plate. The main assembly problem would be getting the 240T closed loop timing belts on each side since there would not be a way to adjust them easily. I think it could be done by having the wheels not bolted to plates 1st & tensioned them in place to tighten the belt. You would also need 2 more of the 240T belts & 2 more GT2 Timing Pulleys 20T bore 8mm. One of the spacers would also have to be a different thickness. After redrawing this, I did notice I had the back plate located 2mm too close as the wheel spacer on that side intruded into the back plate 2mm. That error doesn’t affect this assembly unless you create the AWD. 2020 hindsight, I should have had the bearings on both sides of the wheel the same offset from the most outside edge of wheel. Here is what that idea looks like.

2 Likes

I was looking at adding some weight to this machine which would probably give it better traction since it seemed to help that Chinese rolling laser that @dkj4linux mentioned. I figured the best way to add weight without putting some objects on top, would be to add some BB’s or something similar to the cavity of the 2040s (Not using sand as it is too messy). Rather that figure it out myself, thought I would see how well chatGPT handled it. It could not come up with the correct area of the cavity, so I gave it that number after checking it on a profile in fusion 360. It could not figure out the cavity area of the V-Slot, so I gave it an equivalent Cylinder diameter based on the area I came up with. It came up with approximately 3,904 BB’s & a weight of 1.4kg. Not sure I want to buy 8,000 BB’s though (need for 2 - V-Slot 2040). I can get a 6,000-count container of them from Walmart for $11.23.

how many daisy bb’s will fit in a 13.834 mm diameter 1 meter long cylinder and how much would it weigh

To calculate the volume of the cylinder, we need to use the formula:

V = πr²h

Where V is the volume, r is the radius (half the diameter), and h is the height (in this case, the length of the cylinder).

First, we need to find the radius (r) of the cylinder:

r = d/2 = 13.834/2 = 6.917 mm

Now we can calculate the volume of the cylinder:

V = πr²h = π(6.917 mm)²(1000 mm) = 150,295.33 mm³

Next, we need to determine the volume of one Daisy BB. Unfortunately, I don’t know the exact dimensions of a Daisy BB, but let’s assume it’s a sphere with a diameter of 4.5 mm. The formula for the volume of a sphere is:

V = (4/3)πr³

where r is the radius (half the diameter). Thus, the volume of one Daisy BB would be:

V = (4/3)π(2.25 mm)³ = 38.485 mm³

Now we can divide the volume of the cylinder by the volume of one Daisy BB to find out how many BBs would fit inside:

150,295.33 mm³ ÷ 38.485 mm³ ≈ 3,904.7 BBs

Note that this is an estimate, and the actual number of BBs that could fit inside the cylinder may vary depending on how tightly they are packed.

Finally, to calculate the weight, we need to know the weight of one BB. Again, I don’t have this information, but let’s assume it weighs 0.36 grams (which is the weight of a different brand of BB).

Thus, the total weight of the BBs would be:

3,904.7 BBs × 0.36 grams/BB = 1,405.1 grams

So the BBs would weigh approximately 1,405.1 grams (or 1.4 kg).

1 Like

chatCPT is scary. :smiley:

It has the possibility of being a useful tool if it is not abused.

2 Likes

For equal spheres in three dimensions, the densest packing uses approximately 74% of the volume. A random packing of equal spheres generally has a density around 63.5%.

So multiply that 3900 by .63 to get a better estimate. It is probably even worse than that, because the cylinder limits are close to the number of bbs wide.

Did you check the diameter of the bbs against its guess (4.5mm)? I don’t know what a daisy bb is.

2 Likes

The 4.5mm seems to be correct. I figured it was going to be a little off because of the way they randomly stack. That .63 factor gets the number down to around 4900 BBs. With that in mind this 6000ct BBs might be worth trying. It might even be less than that since the cavity shape is odd shaped. Will see if I can get a less expensive source 1st, but $12.54 does not seem to bad a price. Daisy Precision Max BB’s 0.177 Caliber BB Zinc Plated Steel, 6000ct. - Walmart.com
[Edit] And looks like it is in stock at local Walmart. Maybe I will go by there tomorrow

You might also try lead shot, like in those dead blow hammers. Smaller diameter, plus more dense material.

I did look into shot. I used to reload shotgun shells many years ago. Shot seems to be a lot more expensive and mostly comes in 25lb bags. I just looked at the weights of a couple of other materials related to lead to see if they were worthwhile substitutes. I have a pile of hematite beads that are 4x5mm tube beads. Hematite is about half the weight per same volume of lead.

My wife uses flaxseed for heating pads which are microwavable. I could get those a lot more compact in those cavities, but according to ChatGPT, “The density of flaxseed varies depending on factors such as moisture content and variety, but it is typically around 0.5 to 0.8 grams per cubic centimeter. The density of lead, as mentioned in the previous answer, is approximately 11.3 grams per cubic centimeter.” That puts the weight of lead a14.1 - 22.6 heavier than flaxseed. Because of the more compactness of flaxseed, you could proably1/2 or 1/3 that number or maybe even more. The same would go for sand if you used that.

While I was at it, thought I may as well look at what sand would be. Here is ChatGPT responce to that. “The density of sand can vary depending on its composition, but it typically ranges from 1.2 to 1.6 grams per cubic centimeter. As previously mentioned, the density of lead is approximately 11.3 grams per cubic centimeter.”

Flaxseed might be a good choice to use as beanbag weights put on top on both sides and it is relatively inexpensive.

1 Like

Another option would be to use 5/16" washers on the M8 axle rod. One of my 5/16" washers weigh 0.69 ounce each with a thickness of 1.5mm. A little over 550 washers would fit on the space left of the 1000mm length of rod I am using. The bearings, spacers & idlers currently on there, take up about 130mm. 500 washers are about 3.6lbs. With all that extra weight pulling down on that rod, there would have to be 2 -4 more bearings added which would of course give me some more ballast weight. Cost wise, it is not too bad. Bolt Depot has them $2.88 per 100 or $23.50 per 1000. SAE flat washers, Zinc plated steel, 5/16" - Bolt Depot

What about stainless tumbling media?

2 Likes

Good idea, but pricier than the BBs.

I got the 6000ct Crossman BBs for $10 today. With the container they weigh 4lbs 10.6oz. After adding the BBs to the V-Slot 2040 Cavity, it adds 1lb 14.8oz to the weight of one of those V-Slots. To get a good average weight of a BB, I weighed 100 BBs on my accurate weight scale & that came out to 1.4oz. That comes out to an average weight of 0.014 oz per BB. If my math is right, based on that average weight, seems like I got 2200 BBs in that cavity. I could probably get a few more in there if I shook it some as I added them to get them to settle more. On this 1st test, looks like that 0.63 number @jeffeb3 gave me is closer to 0.56 to 0.57. I was able to get 20 more BBs in there after shaking it, which brought that weight from 1lb 14.6oz to the 1lb 14.8oz mentioned above. I suspect, 100 or more BBs could be added if I agitated it more while adding them.

Here are some photos. I picked up one of those Inch/metric flexible rulers from Walmart while I was there. The one I have had for a few years has the lettering started to wear off & I really like that ruler. Of course, I had to 3d print a funnel to make it easier to add these & made some simple endcaps to keep the BBs in place. I was smart enough to add these above a towel & scatter rug in case some came out they would not roll across the floor. I did not spill any on the floor though.



4 Likes

Geometry is amazing.

So is unit analysis.

If we were just talking about atoms instead of bbs, this would be graduate level physics.

I found a mistake I made. After taking the BBs out & weighing them, the weight of the BBs were 20.6oz. That brings the BB count down to around 1471 BBs. When going back & forth from one room to the next, I had the number wrong on the scale for my original weight. My initial weight of the 2040 should have been 1lb 12.2 oz instead of the 1lb 2.2 oz I was using. Glad I rechecked that. I might have to add them back in to see if they will compact more. The odd shape cavity probably helps cut down on how many I can add.

[Edit] I got another 30 BBs in there agitating after ever few hundred added, so I will call it 1500 BBs.

3 Likes

I started going out of my comfort zone & made an Assembly video for this design. Here is the link to Part 1 that is all the Subassemblies. The final assembly will be in Part 2.

5 Likes

I added Mostly Corrected Wheel Plate Assembly video since I had a few mistakes in Part 1. Still had some mistakes in this video but added overlay text & graphics to clarify this assembly. I have the final Part 3 done also but will wait until tomorrow to upload that, since that will take a while to upload.

4 Likes

Here is Part 3 which is probably the final part of this assembly build.

5 Likes

A while back I designed this mount to use a pancake motor instead of servo motor, but never got around to testing it. I finally decided to play with it. I had to offset the mount from the V-Slot plate another 3-4mm and change the belt clamp on the carriage closest to limit switch to hit to give it a couple mm clearance for the motor to drop down further. I will have to adjust the motor direction & how much to raise & lower it but seems like a good solution. With this approach, I won’t need to hand edit the gcode which is a very big plus. I probably won’t be able to test it until Monday.

Here is another photo that shows differences between pancake & servo. The servo was mounted on opposite side of carriage.

I tweaked this design a little more and added a Z limit switch for upper height of the pen mount. I initially had the end stop wire connector facing the front but seemed like a better idea to have the wiring come out the back. I changed the M3 rod bracket screws from the top to the bottom for more clearance on putting on the limit switch. I also made the red wings on the pen mount wider & a couple of mounting holes for better coverage of other limit switches. I might get an optical end stop which would require another plastic part screwed to that. I will test it tomorrow. I will then have to work on how to route the wiring, probably a cable chain.

2 Likes

I just became aware that openbuilds CAM software can handle pen plotters using the M3 Sxxx for servos & it runs on a browser. The control software runs on Windows, Mac or Linux so looked like this should run on a raspberry pi. Since the control software doesn’t run on a browser, probably would need a desktop version on the pi. OpenBuilds Software: OpenBuilds CONTROL and OpenBuilds CAM

Looks like the CAM software runs off their server.
https://cam.openbuilds.com

1 Like

I decided to add a drag chain to this rolling plotter. I spent more time than I care to admit getting this the way I wanted. My 1st big mistake was making the links so they could rotate close to 180 degrees. I had printed quite a few of the links before I realized the links across the top would hit the bottom links if they rotated that much. I also made some V-Slot Channel guides. I was initially going to use a 2020 for the guide rail, but the 2040 gave a wider plane for the chain to ride on. I also added some channel guides to make sure the chain stayed on path. I printed the chain links in sets of 8 for a total of 48 links. I will probably also add some press fit end caps to the top V-Slot 2040.


There is not a lot of weight on that top 2040, so only needed a bracket on each end to tie it to the bottom 2040 & only connected on the one side of both 2040, since I might limit the travel of the carriage.

I remixed this from another design but doesn’t look much like that design now. Here is my remix.
Drag Chain for my Rolling Plotter by GeoDave - Thingiverse

3 Likes