So, i took apart the mpcnc to build the lowrider. So far, so good. Work holding isn’t quite as convenient as the mpcnc, but I’m getting there.
What I want to do is make a small, rigid mpcnc for really getting after it on aluminum or HOGGING out some wood. Something with a little more power. Maybe a little more than the 660 (I’m really liking the 611 on the LR).
I know I can do it for a couple hundred bucks because I still have my parts, but I got thinking…what would be the next step up that makes sense? A friend suggested the workbee, but at $1000 for the size I want (say 18x18, maybe 12x12) it doesn’t seem to have any advantages other than the 611.
What is that machine that delivers a performance envelope larger than the mpcnc that justifies the cost difference? I think it’s really fantastic that I can’t think of anything, by the way. Really happy with V1!
Do I just save up some cash for a Tormach? After all, then I can cut small steel stuff, too. I bounced that off the wife last weekend, and she isn’t opposed, but I think it’s gonna cost me a LOT more than cash.
From everything I’ve seen and read, you’ve found the secret that V1 Engineering is trying to (poorly) hide from the world… 
Break out your dancing shoes, gardening gloves, painting supplies, or whatever else is on your honeydew list. And really hustle up any work you’re getting on your LR2 to justify something bigger. Oh, and make up with your mother/sister/brother/father/dog-in-law… 
The printnc is advertised to be a very rigid machine but I’m guessing you’d spend more than just a few hundred. I wouldn’t say the design has been proven yet either.
Spending more isn’t out of the question. I just want to know where the added value graph intersects with the added cost. If it happens under $1500, I might buy/build it before summer. If it’s over $5k, I’ll have to do some soul searching first and wait until Christmas. I don’t think I’ve seen anything under $1k that can match what I’ll build a mpcnc into. Even the workbee is boasting 25mm aluminum. I think I can do that with a careful build for way less than half.
PocketNC interested me before I found MPCNC, but I could never justify it. I would need a very specific task for it to begin to make sense, and then it’s a means to make things, not a toy in its own right.
That pocketnc is pretty neat. 5 axis is pretty cool, but I’m not ready for that. I haven’t even got my head squarely around flipping the stock, lol.
I really wish I had a answer for this.
As for an MPCNC, build it really small and it might surprise you. You have most the parts might as well try right? Do some soul searching on how big of metal you really want to cut…make is super short and as small as possible and a square never seems like that is optimizing your space (more on this later).
Anything better and diminishing returns will surprise you. Each zero on the price tag gets you very little. A tormach is an amazing step up but I would think making money with it should be more than a hobby. Have a look at the area it has (more later) and the feeds and speeds vs. the price tag. The things most do not realize is how much everything else costs. Basic milling vice (more than a decked out MPCNC), real hold downs, real collets a lot of them, collet vise, bigger real endmills, coolant, filters, 220V power, compressor, delivery, soft blow or two, parallels, touch probes.
Tormach 440 ~$8k++ 10" x 6"=60"square
Tomach 1100m ~$19k++ 18X11"=198" square
18x18 on an mpcnc=324" square I would really like to see what a 10"x6" MPCNC could do.
Of course they both have serious Z axes, but endmills in general are a lot shorter than the reach they have.
I put a lot of thought into a Tormach at one point but it just kept adding up and was just too much for me to not be using it to make it back at least part time.
I would love to make a “pro version” or a step up and we have talked about it over the years but this is the sort of thing I keep hitting. Getting just a little more is expensive. I am working on a new build but it is not significantly different enough to call pro…and might not even be better but I like to try. I think to trully step up you have to specify exactly what you want to use it for.
For instance, as an easy example, a laser step up would just be an import k40, above that is a domestic CO2 laser.
But for milling it is just not that easy. You really need to buy for a specific use I feel.
Sorry for rambling but for obvious reasons I think about this very thing…a lot…
Exactly the conundrum! Wifey thinks we could make a large chunk of it back before long, but like you say, it will take dedicated effort. She’s got a hundred ideas, but I need to get to work!
If there is nothing in between, I think I’ll make that teensy tiny mpcnc and see what I can make. If it sells, great. If it sells a lot, maybe a Tormach will make sense later.
I’m going after aluminum, 1/4 - 1/2 inch. 1/8 inch steel is beyond my hope right now, but I’ve got plans to run test cuts in wood or mdf and send my files of to the water jet. I just designed a template for a friend, tested in vinyl, and send it off. Water jet guy was happy, seems like an easy enough deal.
I’m really glad you think about this stuff. I don’t have the pedigree for it. I really wish I was more skilled, since you want to see what a small machine will do. I guess I’ll build it and you can advertise my preformance as the lower bound!
I keep thinking just what the accessories for a more powerful spindle. When you start thinking of spindle cooling and then part cooling and chip evacuation/air assist and then end mills. Then work holding/vises. It seems that the rate of return is only double but the cost is exponential.
How about this, instead of thinking you are bad at it…if you do chose another machine learning on the MPCNC will only spare the new machine a lot of abuse. Learn cheap, spend well.
I am by no means trying to discourage you. There very well might be a significantly better $1500 machine, I really have not put too much effort into looking at the “other” guys. More along the lines of Tormach is something I have looked into so that is a money only venture unless you have a better nest egg than most to play with. There might be a better DIY type benchtop out there I honestly am not sure.
I hate this, I really really hate this part. I am banging my head against the wall trying to make the CNC’s “better” (=more rigid), any path you take has massive constraints, #1 through #8 is cost, in one form or another and it returns very very little.
Oh man, that’s so right, lol. I beat up on my mpcnc, no lie. If I’d done some of that crap to a multi thousand dollar machine I might have cried. Now that you mention it, I probably still have a few of those mistakes left in me!
It’s not that I think I’m bad, per se. I’m just a 40 year old restaurant manager turned actuarial analyst. The fact that I’m running any sort of cnc in my garage at ALL is amazing.
Unless somebody comes up with a really great option, I’m gonna build the small mpcnc. I’m looking forward to your next creation, too. Interesting part outline you posted!
Just think of how big of a tower of MPCNCs you could make for $8k++! It would be hard for a machine to compete with a farm of cncs.
I didn’t mean to derail this so much Tony. I am also pretty interested to hear what other MPCNC>$>Tormach machines look good to ya’ll?
This one is pretty slick, small volume but second to none in that category. I have seen some amazing parts come off these things!
I am not to familiar with the differences but this one and the shapeoko probably would need a head to head for me to decide between them.
How about buying a second-hand, non-CNC mill, and adding stepper motors? I don’t really know the market, but $1500 would get you a pretty nice lathe.
Workbee and the Tormach are CNC machines indeed, but with completely different uses.
At $5K, the answer is almost assuredly the AVID/CNCRP machines. I think that’s what you’d get if you put $5k into an MPCNC. Their entry level machine uses ABEC bearings riding on cold rolled steel plate, sound familiar? They even released the step files for those and I was seriously considering printing the carriages to try anyways!
Disclaimer: I have a workbee, and I have a Joe’s Hybrid. I also still have my MPCNC, but I don’t use it as much. I love that machine. In two years I went from that to a Joe’s Hybrid, and flying out to work on shopbots and lagunas, even AXYZ. But I made all the big operator mistakes on the MPCNC!
The biggest drawback of the workbee is the wheels, so I just ordered a set of linear rails from china to test, cost me about $220 including UPS express. 2x1500mm and 2x1000mm rails with blocks for my machine. The amount of wheels used in the workbee get expensive, even if you source them from china, so this is something I’m trying.
Wow, the avid pro is nuts. I just watched the video of it FLYING through aluminum. Thanks for that!
Hmmmm. I don’t own a lathe…yet…
I’d hold off on the printnc until there are a few in the wild. If you’re wanting to do steel, most bang for your buck would be converting a used manual mill.
The next step up from MPCNC or low rider is more about rigidity and more powerful spindles.
An all-metal CNC using lead screws with larger steppers allow you to push around a more powerful spindle at higher speeds while maintaining accuracy.
I would love to have a machine with a 2kw water cooled spindle being pushed around by NEMA 23’s. I have a friend that has one. It’ll hog out some serious material without chatter at rates that I could only dream of.