I can create designs in Tinkercad in 20 mins that take me 2 hours to do in Fusion 360. I feel that its a very simple, intuitive app to use. Unfortunately, you hit the wall of functionality very quickly.
I have been working in Fusion 360 a lot more lately, to try and keep a consistent workflow, but I will often revert to Tinkercad when I just want to make something simple, quickly.
What if your Fusion subscription cost was paid by selling Patron-level access to the files. Many of us would be willing to chip in, and the cost would deter those who want something for nothing.
Are you planning to stock an upgrade kit that supplies the needed hardware to convert a Burly to a Primo?
He’s already said he is, but it’s just been lost in the 400+ messages on this thread. 
I don’t think a Patreon will work very well, firstly there is no reason for someone to stay beyond the first month fee (at a minimal level), so all you really do is increase the cost of the kit by X amount.
I am also not sure what you mean by “something for nothing”, the CNC is going to cost $500-$1000 depending on what you do, how you make it. Thats hardly nothing. Even if you didn’t pay Ryan specifically for the hardware kit.
Thanks, but If I can buy a month subscription and make a few mounts, share them , and cancel. That sounds ideal. I will try this out once it is released and the dust settles a bit.
Yes. I think I have all of it here now, just waiting to finish!!
Almost seems like a certain Mr. Escher was involved.
Looks like order of assembly is critical here.
YES. For sure.
OK, I get what you’re saying now. Editing STEP files doesn’t create a timeline by default in Fusion360, which means edits are made directly to the design with no ability to go back and change a parameter.
If it helps, while editing a STEP file, you can turn on “Capture Design History” by right-clicking the “Document Settings” at the top of the browser tree in Fusion360, and then it will create a timeline of design features from that point forward.
Of course, what you’d have at that point isn’t a STEP file anymore, and you’d have to save it as a Fusion360 project to keep the timeline. Conversely, If you re-export the design as a STEP file, you’d lose the design history again.
You could also export the file as a Fusion360 design file (.F3D) and all of the sketches and timeline will be preserved, but then you’d need Fusion360 to open it and edit it, which ruins the portability.
I started in OpenSCAD, manually coding in all the parameters as variables and transforms; it was a good way for me to jump into 3D modelling as a trained coder/programmer. I jumped to Fusion360 about a year ago, and I like the way Fusion360 handles parameters way better.
Sure, you can use custom-named parameters (I think of them as variables) and manually change them in Fusion360 just the same as in OpenSCAD. But it’s much more natural (for me at least) to visually edit a design and let Fusion360 manage the design parameters behind the scenes.
If I may beg the question, once the design is finalized, why would you want the entire design history included in the file? I thought part of Ryan’s design ethos is the idea that he doesn’t want it to be TOO easy to make edits, because if it’s too easy, people make janky edited pieces that he then has to deal with coming up in his search results for “MPCNC Primo”.
IMO, STEP files are a nearly perfect balance. They’re reasonably easy to edit in a wide range of CAD software (WAY easier than editing STLs), but they do require the user to know what they’re doing to some extent.
Good point. Excellent point. Maybe I am overthinking this and trying to solve too many user complaints at once.
I am not sure that really solves anything. So one person uses the STEP, generates an STL, puts it on thingiverse, and then 1000 people make crapy designs as remixes. Doesn’t seem to have solved any problem by making it more difficult to use.
Ooh, I love this idea! Ryan gets buy-in from people who want to help, and he gets a much closer circle to share the files in than “just put them up on thingiverse lol”
Patreon is a community tool way more than a product release tool. People who buy in for a couple of dollars a month could get access to the files if Ryan set it up that way, sure, but they also get access to a smaller community of people who are so serious about helping that they’re chipping in money. The private, paywalled community of people hacking the MPCNC would be the reason to keep paying money every month.
Ryan could set any price he wants for beta tester access, but I think just the “pain” of setting up a Patreon is enough to dissuade the kind of person who just wants it for free right away.
As one content creator I patronize put it, “the signal to noise ratio is WAY better on Patreon because people are paying to be there.” It might have been a good way to handle the beta testing of the new parts for that reason.
I am not really big on having to pay to get anything from me. I have the non-commercial aspect that I think at least shows my attitude towards this stuff (free to make, but not free to sell). I know some really hate this but to me this seems more than fair. So far the patreon exists by request and I try to share some things there early, but eventually everyone gets it.
Most people are not willing to continue to pay for a product they have already received. Patreons work by dolling out content of some type regularly. There might be a few dedicated users that want to support it, but thats not going to be enough to put any kind of dent in it.
I developed software, for free, for two decades (still do). I would have various donation mechanisms, and in the span of 5 years, I got a total of 3 donations though I had thousands of users in a very active community with a lot of good people. A friend of mine wrote a similar application to the one I am referencing, and added a premium feature tier (some features were exclusive to this tier). He has a smaller community by far, but makes a lot of money. People do not want to give money without getting something tangible back, it’s just the way of the world.
I agree that Tinkercad is “useful” and quick to use for simple tasks. For me… it depends on whether I’m using existing STLs or doing original work. Tinkercad makes it easy to make simple alterations and/or union/merge useful bits of a couple of existing STLs… i.e. adding a new/different tool mount to a new needle cutter body. I rely on Onshape (mostly) or Openscad (sometimes) when doing new designs.
I would much prefer Onshape, I already know the system. The price they have is almost the same as just renewing my solidworks though.
others who are willing to freely share their designs
Onshape has that blurb, that sounds like if I freely share my mount files than I am free to use the free version?
honestly, i can download a trial version of Solidworks, make edits, move on. Hopefully you only ever have to do it once (i mean, how many will you build that you need to change the design any?). once an stl is created, what more is there to do?
Also, i really wish i could create a free University that you could sign up with and get cheap licenses. My son goes the the state U and has Solidworks from them.
I use Fusion 360 for the complex work, just because I already use it for CAM (haven’t found another decent CAM program yet) and I don’t like browser based tools for complex work.
I wish there were more alternatives, especially open ones.
Oh, I didn’t realize you already had a Patreon, I thought you were only considering it. I’d join, I’ll have to look you up!
I think the idea is that users would be paying for early access to the files at this phase of the game.
You’ve got the experience so you’re probably right.
Ideally, people would be paying Ryan on Patreon for making the MPCNC in the first place, and they would stay subscribed so that he keeps making the MPCNC. That’s the original purpose and intent behind Patreon, is “I’ll kick in a few bucks to help this creator to keep making the content I like.”
Yes, there are people who will see it strictly as a transaction to get the models, but that’s a side effect, as is the high community signal-to-noise ratio I mentioned. I’ve heard some cool stories out of Patreon: “after a year and a half on Patreon, I was able to pay for the full shop-sized CNC mill / engineering-level flow mechanics simulation / 20-ton hydraulic press I needed!”
But then, Ryan’s over the starving artist hump for the MPCNC, and he’s got his community here, so Patreon probably isn’t as useful now.
