LR4 Longer Term?

[Thormj (Thor)]

Looks like it’s been here around 6 months. Looks to be half the top speed of an OneFinity, but, looks well within 1/4" normal speeds and feeds (looks like nothing keeps up with the hogger bits).

Basically, I want to build this to cut out some full sheet projects and try my hand at 3d carving (I bought Risteki’s FB package and it looks stunning. We’ll see how Fusion likes it…). I had a MaslowCNC (v1) and it was too slow to be used with a fixed-speed router (now I know, so I’ll be getting one of those Dewalt ones).

How long have you been cutting / how much / any problems?
Are you breaking more bits than the machine or ?
I gots mostly pine, so… I dunno about hardwoords. I can get some oak. And I’d like to cut some 1/4" aluminum…

My plan is a tilting torsion box table (easier to load/unload, everything stock for now. Top surface would probably be out of a junked table tennis top. What makes a great spoilboard for this guy? I was thinking dog holes to keep everything really low… but I’ve heard hardboard is tough on bits…

First iteration would be to use the web interface with Jackpot (hello LowRider) and a junk tablet as the pendant (I prefer to keep my cadputer away from the chipsnbits)…

What are the speeds and accel rates of this beastie?

How do you keep the axes clean? Does anyone make a dust brush for EMT?

Thinking upgrading to Nema23 motors would be good (I know the JackPot can’t do the full 5A, but even at 2A, it looks like I can get almost double the torque)… but I think I’ll build stock first, then another head module with the Nema23 & a 6" Z height… and other things…

I had so many problems with the Maslow (great machine, except… lots of tension in unknown places, yes, a tubafor is kinda bendy, and very slow and a real strain on the frame and the servos and it couldn’t carve), that I want to upgrade…

So… is LR4 a valid upgrade? Can it do the aluminum side plates (yes, I have an end mill for aluminum – but sheet goods on my C mill are… annoying.)?

[jeyeager (Jason Yeager)]

So, perhaps I should put some things in context here. First off, I don’t have an LR4, I have an LR3 (which I plan to upgrade later this year, because it’s fun, I don’t really need the improvements). I’ve had it for going on a year and a half.

@Thormj

How long have you been cutting / how much / any problems?
Are you breaking more bits than the machine or ?

I’ve cut MDF, plywood, and soft woods. I haven’t gotten into hardwoods and aluminum yet but many others have. I haven’t broken a bit but I’ve ruined some with mistakes I’ve made. If you break a bit, that’s probably not the machines fault. This is mostly a matter of learning proper feeds and speeds. That is hard to do with a fixed speed router like it sounds you were using.

@Thormj

but I think I’ll build stock first, then another head module with the Nema23 & a 6" Z height…

It’s always recommended to build the machine stock first, which sounds like your intent. The thing to realize is it’s a well balanced machine. You can’t just put NEMA 23s on it without creating a new weak point. For the LR4, it’s not really practical to do that anyway just like extending the Z height. Personally, I haven’t found the steppers to be a performance bottleneck. If you need more Z height to accommodate thicker materials, you can build a drop table. If you need to go all the way through it, there are strategies to flip the material and mill from both sides.

@Thormj

Looks to be half the top speed of an OneFinity

I’m not sure it’s fair to compare it to an Onefinity. That’s in a different price bracket. I’m not aware of anything out there that gets you a better bang for the buck than a Lowrider.

@Thormj

What makes a great spoilboard for this guy?

My spoilboard is just a sheet of 3/4" MDF. I just screw things directly to it. I haven’t had a need to surface my spoilboard yet.

@Thormj

How do you keep the axes clean? Does anyone make a dust brush for EMT?

I haven’t found a need to clean the EMT at all. Sometimes I’ll clean up the path where it rolls on the one side. It would help if I hooked up some dust collection.

@Thormj

it was too slow to be used with a fixed-speed router (now I know, so I’ll be getting one of those Dewalt ones).

I thought the Dewalt was a fixed speed router. Do you mean a Makita? There are others as well, but I agree, you want a variable speed router. The slower it can go the better, the ranges usually start around 10,000 RPM.

@Thormj

So… is LR4 a valid upgrade?

I mean we’re all biased here but I’d say absolutely. I’m thrilled with the capability of my LR3 and looking forward to upgrading it.

[DougJoseph (Doug Joseph (design8studio))]

The LR4 is a great machine. It has solid rigidity and great functionality, and at a price point that can’t be beat.

I first built LowRider v2, then upgraded to v3, then upgraded to v4. The added rigidity of the v4 means you can increase speeds and feeds and get done faster. Of course no machine can take away bit deflection (bending of the bit under pressure), and as always, properly adjusted feeds and speeds are the key to getting good performance.

As for how long I’ve been cutting with LR4 — I was in on it early with the beta test group. I’ve done quite a few projects with it, several of which were documented either here or on YouTube.

See these:

LowRider v4 DIY CNC - BETA TEST Amazing wood cut at 3000mm/min and 12mm depth of cut!

LowRider v4 DIY CNC - deep cuts in oak - personalized letter coin bank

LR4-made: bespoke signage for a locally owned and operated business

[Made w/ LowRider v4 DIY CNC: bespoke signage for a locally owned and operated business] It’s a two-part sign. The lower part gets anchored to the wall. The upper part is attached to the lower part, but it gets “cantilevered” a bit out into space. Back view of the lower part: I later added a PWM motor controller so the LED brightness could be controlled, allowing running them at less than full brightness, to run cooler and extend their lifespan. [IMG_0707] Front view of the upp…

Just got a pretty big payday $$$$ from using modeling & design skills + LR4 + 3D printers + CO2 laser

I recently made a short video about one of the signs, but there was more signage plus four sets of “slime dispenser” machines + stands for the dispenser machines. First sign: [IMG_0749] First sign installed at local business: [IMG_0929] Second set of signage installed in new “Slime Co” room at the business — everything you see at the top, above the shelves and across between them: [IMG_9692] Slime Co — Slime Dispenser — in-use on site! [IMG_0930-Slime-Co-Dispenser-in-use-001_BLUR] […

And see loads of other stuff here:

https://forum.v1e.com/tag/gallery-lowrider-cnc

When it comes to breaking bits, if your speeds and feeds are right, you will usually just see a bit get dull over several jobs, and eventually need replaced for good sharpness.

Build stock first, and definitely do get a router with speed control, and get some way of calculating speeds and feeds for jobs — and you’ll likely be so happy you won’t consider trying to soup it up. It’s a concert package. Everything is well matched for everything else, with a view to getting good performance at a great price. As soon as you try to spice up one part of it, you create an imbalance because you did not soup up everything. I would dare say anyone thinking the NEMA17s are not powerful enough is probably either not doing speeds and feeds right, or trying to force a dull bit to keep working.

Re. comparison to a OneFinity — my LR4 has double the cutting area of the largest machines from OneFinity, and at about 1/4 of the price. The speeds I’m getting are fast enough that I don’t have any sense of needing a faster machine.

Re. spoil board: I just use MDF, and for material hold-down, I screw things directly to the MDF. Works great, would not have it any other way.

Re. how to keep clean: dust collection works surprisingly well, and I really have no issues regarding keeping chips out of the mechanism. After each major cut job, I have a very minor bit of vacuuming a few tiny chips up from the spoil board in the area around where the material was. Very minor.

Re. too slow to be used with a fixed-speed router: As I have done more and more cutting, and more of faster speeds and speeds testing the waters on the LR4, I’ve gotten to where I often run jobs with the router speed knob set on #4 if I’m using a 1/8 bit — which is pretty fast. It also all depends on the material being cut, how many flutes, how sharp the bit is, how deep the depth of cut is, etc.

[Thormj (Thor)]

Videos were cool… but the youtube ones I watched were old, so I was kinda worried that you tried LR4… and needed to graduate (like me with the Maslow). So that’s why I asked “long term hustle…”

@DougJoseph

When it comes to breaking bits, if your speeds and feeds are right, you will usually just see a bit get dull over several jobs, and eventually need replaced for good sharpness.

Oh, I gotcha. But I just wanted to make sure the machine wasn’t the weak point. V1E did a great job picking up the loads, but I just wasn’t sure PLA or ASA would work (I’m using ASA because… Georgia)… and kinda concerned about the straightness of Home Despot’s EMT (I need 3, so I’ll get 3 and roll them together old skool).

@DougJoseph

Re. spoil board: I just use MDF, and for material hold-down, I screw things directly to the MDF. Works great, would not have it any other way.

Is it bottom-web → Torsion Bits → Top board glued to torsion bits → Spoil board screwed to top board?
I was thinking Top Board and Spoil board would have dog holes, and I could use bench dogs to align and clamp things…

@DougJoseph

It also all depends on the material being cut, how many flutes, how sharp the bit is, how deep the depth of cut is, etc.

Gotcha, so definitely going variable speed. Have you had to change out the brushes, do you run a sock or? Half of me is thinking using the battery-based ones and using a 24V, 50A power supply but the cable is… oof (I need 6ga Litz wire please…).

Sounds like it’s a really good machine and a significant step up for me and I won’t really need to upgrade to an Altmill unless I’m starting to do real, volume production. But I bet I can stack Lowriders (CNC Farm! To go with my 3d print menagerie) better than Altmill can run faster… and if I need a $100k machine… well, Lowrider becomes the weekend vehicle.

Though that https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCzSvRSOZ98 shows that acceleration is somewhat important with the current CAM stuff… and I’ve seen videos of machines slowing down because there were “too many dots” (using an arc instead of a circle and not doing the Marlin lookahead… but I think Liquid does the lookahead)…

But I’m also very terrible at saving up, so… if Lowrider works, then I wanna play.
Malsow tried to destroy its frame during calibration and the chains were… something else (Maslow1 was a 2 chains+gravity system kinda like an etch-a-sketch. Bought the kit for 500, 3d printed a Z axis knob for a Ryobi big router and… motor board finally burned [servo, 12V, rated for 5A]). Their new one (Maslow4 - 4 timing belts at the corners) is also cool for sheet goods, but no good for carving… and getting material into/out of it looks…harrumph.

[DougJoseph (Doug Joseph (design8studio))]

@Thormj

was kinda worried that you tried LR4… and needed to graduate

I’m great with the LR4, and not needing to graduate to anything else.

@Thormj

and kinda concerned about the straightness of Home Despot’s EMT (I need 3, so I’ll get 3 and roll them together old skool).

While in the home improvement store buying the EMT, lay the steel tube on the polished concrete and roll it back and forth. If it’s not straight you can tell right away.

@Thormj

Have you had to change out the brushes

I ran a Makita trim router for good while, and then switched to the (now discontinued) Kobalt trim router. I’ve yet to have to change out the brushes.

@Thormj

acceleration is somewhat important with the current CAM stuff

The V1E Jackpot control board is really nice for the LowRider. The Jackpot is compatible with FluidNC firmware (which is basically GRBL compatible), and it handles acceleration, which is adjustable within the config file for the firmware. I’m not aware of any significant issues with arcs.

@Thormj

new one (Maslow4 - 4 timing belts at the corners) is also cool for sheet goods, but no good for carving… and getting material into/out of it looks…harrumph

The LR4 can do carving. I’ve yet to do that, but I thing some makers on here have done it.

@Thormj

Malsow tried to destroy its frame during calibration and the chains were… something else

A very cool thing about the LowRider is that Ryan, with his engineering genius, designed it that if you mess up on what you’ve asked it to do, or if it gets bogged down for whatever reason, the machine / setup is deliberately designed to “fail gracefully” in a way that most likely won’t tear your machine apart. It’s clever and really appreciated.

[jeffeb3]

@DougJoseph

@Thormj

and kinda concerned about the straightness of Home Despot’s EMT (I need 3, so I’ll get 3 and roll them together old skool).

While in the home improvement store buying the EMT, lay the steel tube on the polished concrete and roll it back and forth. If it’s not straight you can tell right away.

The hardware and panels is also going to align a slightly bent EMT into being straight. Don’t buy a wobbly stick. But don’t stress about a few mm over ten feet.