Finally doing an upgrade - original MPCNC to LR4

Well, it’s finally time. I’ve been saying for about 8 years now that I want to update my MPCNC but it kept getting put off. First because @Ryan had a tendency to tease new revisions just as I thought about doing an upgrade - then I’d be distracted when they finally released…then because life changed and I just didn’t get to use my MPCNC very much. (My wife died unexpected in Aug 2018 and I suddenly found myself a single father of an 8 year old daughter which meant I couldn’t sneak out to my shop very often.)

But - my daughter got older and more independent so I was able to start doing projects again. Except by that point the CNC table had started to collect…stuff. And I just didn’t have time or place to deal with it. However I met someone new and things reached the point we recently bought a new house together and I now have a garage again for the first time in 17 years - no room for my big 4’x4’ table from the old improvised shop…but…I do have room for a 3’x8’ workbench again.

With the LR4 plans hitting right as I bought the house I figured it was time to get serious about an upgrade. Just placed an order in the v1 store for some XY plates and a jackpot (and a few other bits) so it’s getting serious and I figured it’s time to start a thread.

Oh - yesterday was also the 9 year anniversary of my first MPCNC assembly:

That first assembly really got me excited. I had just built my first 3D printer at the end of Dec 2015. I heard about the MPCNC but kind of blew it off…until @dkj4linux posted on the Flite Test forums about his needle cutter and the MPCNC he was using it on. By the end of February 2016 I was happy enough with my printer I started printing parts for a MPCNC.

That first try didn’t go so hot. The black filament was absolute trash - I had ordered Hatchbox but Amazon sent me eSun and it was by far the worst roll of filament I ever used from any vendor. Parts were breaking just sitting on my desk with no stress on them. And not just layers delaminating - they were splitting across the layers even. It was really frustrating - but I kept going.

This part broke just sitting on my desk unused!

Then I had issues with a few of the prints in the pink/purple Hatchbox PLA:

This wasn’t due to the filament or Ryan’s design - this was an extruder issue on my printer where it would sometimes just jam and create a weak layer :frowning:

So - I would up building a new extruder and decided to start from scratch on the MPCNC.

I also decided to switch to PETG despite the risk of loosing stiffness because the machine would live in my old office which is a freestanding building in my old backyard with it’s own AC…and I knew that if the power went out the AC wouldn’t come back on and I’d often go a week or two without noticing. Living in the desert where it’s regularly 115+ in the shade I was really worried about PLA parts holding up out there if the power went out.

So I printed everything in PETG…and then realized that a 4’x4’ table was a bit bigger than my initial measurements had led me to expect and this was NOT going to fit on my dining room table after all. (My plan from the start had been to work with 20"x30" sheets of foam board and it just seemed easier to make a 4’x4’ table rather than one just barely big enough to hold a machine big enough to work with the size material I wanted. Plus I’m American and male so it’s hard to resist the “Bigger is better” mentality :rofl:

My plan was a 3’x4’ machine which I test assembled with the failing parts:

Deciding to be more reasonable I switched to a 2’x2’ machine to start and make sure things would actually work:

I still had major issues with the black PLA and some weak pink parts - so continued fixing my extruder and reprinting in PETG. Printing the early core parts proved difficult due to issues with supports back then:

And a few lost games of filament chicken:

But…I did get usable parts. April 1st 2016 I started rebuilding the 2x2 with PETG parts - sharp eyes may pick out a few more black bits that broke in unexpected ways:

By Apr 30th it was looking like a machine and moved under it’s own power for the first time:

May 1st I had my first successful test - this was before the crown was decided on as a first test and my daughter was obsessed with penguins so:

From there things picked up - a few days later I strapped my dremel to it and cut a few bits of acrylic for a quadcopter and a couple of 1/8" plywood coasters with my companies logo before burning out the dremel.

Then I fell down the needle cutter rabbit hole. My first attempt worked but definitely had issues:

But it was enough to convince me the original plan was a good one so I started making room for the 4x4 table:

By May 30th I had cleaned out my office and got the big table fully ready:

End of August I had replaced the dremel with a dewalt trim tool that was then recommended as a spindle and made one last cut on the 2’x2’ machine with the test file that preceded the crown fully expecting that when the machine was expanded I would no longer be able to work in wood due to the lower rigidity:

Early sept I was cutting full sheets of foam:

There were still issues with my Z (you can see where the needle dragged between moves) but things were looking better and better.

I experimented with the small drag knife but my z wasn’t reliable enough to really use it…I also experimented with a larger drag knife.

Then I added a laser:

My main focus continued to be the needle cutter though - and I even won 2nd place in an Instructables contest where I entered my then current design: https://www.instructables.com/CNC-Needle-Cutter/

And continued to refine the needle cutter to the version I stuck with:

My foam addiction got strong…I was buying it by the case from dollar tree and making all kinds of things out of it. This little stand for ink vials included nice touches like leaving the paper on one side of cuts extra long so it could wrap around the edges for a super clean finish:

With the 2017 eclipse approaching I designed and made a few eclipse projectors for my daughters class:

They were a hit and some of the kids liked them better than their eclipse glasses!

The machine was actually stiff enough made from PETG and at this large size that I could still cut plywood. Talk of the low rider started and liking the idea I started building an original Low Rider:

(Note - I was too cheap to buy roller blade wheels so I designed a multi-part print with 2 piece PLA/PETG center and TPU tire to use instead)

I never finished assembling the machine though as I didn’t have room for an additional table and didn’t trust it enough to replace my then current machine. I would up sending the plates off to someone else and still have a box with all the prints and harware I just found a few weeks ago cleaning out the old shop.

I was doing a lot of RC flying at the time and made all kinds of flying things with help from the MPCNC:

I even helped a friend cut parts for a different CNC design they wanted to try:

I also cut a faceplate out of PVC sheet for a MIDI sequencer I had started building 10 years earlier but set aside because I didn’t want to spend money on the face, buttons, and a case. But now with the 3D printer and CNC I could just make all of that:

I couldn’t do big plywood reliably…but I was able to cut 1/4" MDF easily so I made templates out of MDF I used with an edge trimming bit to make larger things like this shelf for a desk:

I was having a ton of fun with the MPCNC…by now the Burly version had come out I think and I really wanted to upgrade…but the old workhorse kept going and I was loathe to be without it so kept putting off upgrades.

Then in Aug of 2018 my wife died. That put a stop to almost all CNC work for me. I occasionally dusted it off to help my daughter with some girl scout or school projects…but I just didn’t have time for the more in-depth projects I had started to enjoy.

I bought a K40 C02 Laser thinking it could be a nice inside project to tide me over…but found dealing with cooling and ventilation to be more of a pain than it was worth. I had to stick with 3D printing and electronics for my projects.

It made for a few interesting years with some interesting projects - but they’re pretty far off topic for a thread that’s already getting pretty far off topic!

In October I bought a new house - and while I’m not yet fully moved out of the old house I am moved into the new house and really enjoying having a garage and workbench again. So with the release of the LR4 it was time. Two weeks ago I started printing parts and this week started test assembling:

Funny side note - the “cinnamon” filament the core and 2 of the supports are printed in I actually bought before I made my old MPCNC! But it was stored well and hasn’t shown signs of brittleness and it went well with the spool of darker brown I had on hand that the other supports and YZ plates.

The new machine will be a bit of a harlequin as continuing with the theme of me being too cheap for my own good I’m just using up existing spools of filament instead of buying new. Though I am trying to keep things a little “planned” looking.

Anyway - just hit pay on the order for a jackpot and plates…so hopefully I’ll have more progress to share soon. This weekend I’m hoping to find time to build a replacement for my old workbench…new machine will have a 21"x31" working area…but the bench will be about twice as wide so I could expand it if I feel the need.

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I’m thrilled to see you back and active on the forum again, Jason. Hearing of all the projects you’ve done over the years really makes me wish I was still actively doing machine projects. Your progress on making a smaller LR4 really makes it tempting to give another V1 project a go… maybe unrealistic at this late date but tempting if I had the room for it and hands that were a little less shaky.

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I knew I saw your order come through!! I could not help but smile knowing you were coming back! The last 9 years have been a wild ride, for better and for worse. I am so happy to hear about the new life you have been building. Freaking awesome!

My goodness those pictures are nostalgic. “Better middle Z”…the cable driven “spindle”. OG build, man that feels like 2 lifetimes ago. Tomorrow marks the 10th year anniversary of the mpcnc release.

For a couple years???!

…too creative to give in to buying something you could make…

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I forgot I already had an account since I hadn’t ordered anything directly from you before…but apparently you had me create one when I won this:

Though I don’t even remember what the contest was - and I’m ashamed to admit I still have it and haven’t used it for anything because ultimachine support for the archim v1 was so minimal :frowning:

I hoped a few of the old timers would find this trip down memory lane as fun as I did. I’m just waiting for @jeffeb3 to say he needs to try building a needle cutter again :joy: (If it helps I still want to try building a zen table - and my partner has a table with a missing top that may be perfect for it and I think the idea is growing on her )

I also saw your post about the upcoming 10 year anniversary and was hoping to have something to share for that - but it may be a day or two late now. I had family in town the last week and haven’t had time to dust off the old machine…but I have gcode ready to go for my strut plates and included a 10 year tribute on them :sunglasses:

I wanted to get fancier - was hoping I still had the original vicious test file to include along with a crown. But it was a little embarrassing to realize how much ESTLcam I had forgotten (especially given that the videos on how to use it for needle cutting are still some of the most popular videos on my youtube channel)

@dkj4linux - I’ve been lurking from time to time…just not much to say since most of my projects haven’t been CNC related. One example - I went off the deep end building a modular synthesizer with a lot of 3D printed parts:

That included diversions into electronics and re-learning PCB design and etching as well as designing the physical panels.

Unfortunately I took it camping at a music festival in the desert and found the weakness of using PLA for panels and support rails:

So right now it’s sitting in a pile waiting for me to reprint all the panels. Maybe with the LR4 I’ll be inspired to cut a new box for it finally and get it back together :wink:

Assuming the LR4 survives summer in my garage. Just a little nervous about that. I considered going the PETG-CF route but I need to cut some projects for my partner to get her fully on board before I spend that kind of money on the rebuild :grin: I do have A/C in the garage but don’t plan on using it regularly. Just hoping it stays cool enough nothing warps and if it gets really hot I may just bring the LR gantry into my office when it’s not in use :person_shrugging:

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I didn’t known you before, but I am glad you are back! I’ve been here since 2021 and it’s a fantastic community. People come and go, @jeffeb3 and @vicious1 stay. Some others have become active in the last year or two with fantastic mods and projects, LEDs and controllers and whatnot, it’s really incredible how smart all those people are.
I am really sorry about your wife but I am glad you managed to get through it.

Welcome back, pioneer! It’s nice to have one of the ancients back. :slight_smile:

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Welcome back. I’m sorry to hear of your loss.

By comparison, I’m a relative newcomer and long time lurker here.

What an awesome reappearance!
Particularly since:

Exactly what I thought when I read that!

I am looking forward to seeing more of your LR4 build and your cool projects now that you’ve resurfaced.

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So many great projects and memories. I’m glad to see you back at it.

That picture of you and your daughter with the eclipse scope is really endearing. My daughter loves to make stuff with me (she’s 7 and has similar bright blond hair). I need to record more of those moments with her before she grows too old to hang out with me.

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Welcome back Jason!

It’s because of you, David and Flitetest that I got into the V1 CNC build family. I build an early MPCNC to cut out Flitetest foam planes. Then I built your FoamRipper, which I still use today.
I’m very sorry for your loss. It’s great to see you back and I’m looking forward to all of your contributions.
Take care,
Britt

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Looks like @barry99705 is still around too definitely remember him from the early days!

I think she was actually 7 as well that year :smiley: The math seems to check out. She’s going to be 15 this year and already started high school. Crazy how quickly they grow up! I wish she still enjoyed more of my projects. She had some fun with the synth - and loves the things I 3D print for her. But so far she’s had no interest in learning to design her own things to print or setting foot into my shop or garage. But she has her own interests and talents so I can’t really complain!

And thanks for the condolences and compliments everyone. Got me blushing a little over here.

Guess it’s as good a time as any to check my ego a little by sharing todays failure trying to do a 10 year print on my 9 year old machine :rofl:

Thankfully I love sharing failures just as much as successes - that’s how we learn!

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So…starting to feel like today is a day that the universe is telling me to step back and work on something else.

Found the old files for the mount and reprinted the parts that broke. They only need to last for this one last 25 minute job…but…there’s no kill like overkill so printed them with 6 perimeters and 60% infill in PETG.

The originals were in PLA and it was a PLA that wasn’t quite as bad as the black my initial MPCNC parts were printed in…but wasn’t too far away. It was from a manufacturer who’s no longer around because they got such a bad reputation. It was their impact modified PLA that I got in their filament of the month program. And Other than the table feet were the only parts on the machine still in PLA.

After the new parts finished printing I went back over to the old shop and brought the tools I’d need to swap them out. Started to do so and…

Well crud. I kind of knew I should have printed that part as well just in case.

I hadn’t even tightened it up yet…didn’t even realize the nut had made contact. But I guess 9 years of vibrations, heat cycles, and the occasional machine crash finally took their toll :frowning:

So…back at the new house and waiting on a substantially longer print - which may or may not even succeed since I’m a little wary of how much is left on that spool. My other spool of PETG doesn’t have much more left on it though so doesn’t make sense to swap. I could print it in PLA…but it won’t print any quicker and while it may be a little stiffer it would still be mounted to a PETG mount on the machine itself so it’s not like it would make that big of a difference. And with the potential heat of the tool I’d rather go with PETG anyway.

But…with the same 6 perimeters and 60% infill I’m looking at 6 hours on my Mk3S and it’s already 3:30 so the chances of me giving this another go today are slim to none.

Hopefully tomorrow I’ll have better luck. Think I’ll go play in fusion and keep experimenting with ideas for the combined workbench/CNC table I was hoping to start this afternoon but don’t feel quite as rushed about now :rofl:

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Ugh…3 tries to get here…but I’ve got strut plates…well…one of them at least:

The bottom one I need to finish cutting manually.

I mentioned that Z has always been an issue on my 9 year old MPCNC. That’s not a knock on Ryan’s design. It’s just the reality of me ignoring his advice and pushing the limits on size for my own needs before the creation of the Low Rider series.

I suspect there’s a bow in my table as well as in my rails. And I never bothered to surface the table. 90-95% of what I used the machine for was cutting foam and the 1mm or so variance in Z wasn’t that big of an issue for me with that. Or at least it was in areas that didn’t matter much. But cutting with a router on it…it was ALWAYS an issue.

Speaking of foam…before it heads to the trash here’s my old Vacuum Pad to give a feel for how much foam I cut on this machine:

Some parts of the pad are barely hanging on :rofl:

The spoil board I used for cutting wood isn’t as bad as many I’ve seen…but it has definitely seen better days as well (but I’m hanging onto it…may re-use it as a 2x2 base for another machine or just as a spoil board under the LR still:

Anyway…I got the new mount printed last night (the filament did NOT run out!) and this afternoon I finally got over to try my cuts again.

First attempt was technically usable…but didn’t cut all the way through:

This old machine doesn’t have endstops. At the time most people were just physically zeroing the machine before turning it on. I mean…it’s running Marlin 1.1.0-RC6:

Things were a bit sketchy back then!

And when I screwed my workpiece to the table I didn’t notice something was stuck under one corner lifting it up a mm or so…and of course that was the corner I set zero to. So the engraving didn’t even hit the work and the cuts are a bit shy of actually going all the way through.

I could make these work. They’re good enough I could do some manual work and salvage them. But I still had enough room on the stock to try one more time. So I did.

And things mostly went better this time:

The front piece cut perfectly…there are one or two spots where it’s just a little wavy from some chatter due to the Z issues still haunting this machine…but it works as that first photo at the top of this post shows.

The bottom piece…well…

This was another long standing issue with this machine. The lower left corner was always risky when using the DeWalt 660. The power cord had a tendency to get caught on one of the steppers and cause the machine to loose steps…and sure enough it did.

So…I’ll have to manually cut the piece out of the first try to finish the bottom for my LR4.

But…I’ve got two usable plates (or at least one usable and one that will be usable after 10-20 minutes of manual work.)

Next I get to focus on my new workbench while I wait on the last few parts shipments.

Pretty happy with the plans…bench will be 33" deep and 8’ wide but only the leftmost 43" will be used for the LR4 while the rest will be dedicated to my CO2 laser and/or workbench duty (haven’t quite decided yet if the laser will go on top or on a shelf I haven’t drawn in yet.)

The top is two layers - top left layer is a replaceable spoilboard, and the right side is just laminated double thickness for strength and to match the height of the left half. I already have most of the 2x4’s on hand so should be cheap to build…I’ll add additional bracing under the LR half to help keep it flat…biggest expense will be a few sheets of MDF for the top which suddenly seems to be hard to find around me for some reason.

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Hey, a midibox Seq4! Built mine with MPCNC routed case also :slight_smile:

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Beautiful! My case is still only half finished, the back is wide open and there are holes in the sides. One of these days I’ll finally get motivated to finish enclosing it!

I’m still blown away by it. And still struggling to figure out a few things - especially with the analog output to control my modular synth. But until I get the synth re-assembled there’s no big rush. I actually started building my years ago after building a midibox SID. It was before the 4 came out but I don’t remember if it was a 2 or 3…I know it was a PIC processor that was really struggling to keep up with the growing code. When I picked the project back up I was hyped to see it had moved to using the STM discovery board as I had a few on hand that I had used as flight controllers in multirotors. Between that and 3D printing my buttons and knobs and CNCing my own panel and case I was able to keep costs down to where it barely caused any marital stress :rofl:

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Recently I sold the Seq4 and built a Loopa, but the most use I get is from a Zynthian. All homemade with some routed parts :slight_smile: I am mostly a guitar player and want to build my own strat somedays, a nice routingproject also :slight_smile: And yes, by building them myself I can justify the cost to my better half :wink:

In many projects I find use in the MPCNC!

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Very nice @keeze, I haven’t seen the Zynthian but may have to look into it…only instrument I was ever any good at is trumpet - but I love playing around with the synths for fun even if what I do with them is seldom even close to musical :joy:

I’ve tried learning guitar since I was 6 or 7 and never had much luck. But about 20 years ago I started building cigar box guitars and found I can actually handle 3 strings with open tuning to the point people don’t scream at me to stop making noise when I pick it up and start noodling around.

This one is my favorite so far and the only one I’ve kept for myself:

It’s survived 15 years of camping trips and parties and has some battle scars…but doesn’t quite have as much wear and tear as Trigger just yet :wink:

It was originally built with just a piezo pickup under the bridge (which is a cigarette shaped lighter that seemed fitting) but a few years later I upgraded it with half of a fender p-bass pickup after a feedback filled afternoon at a friends studio where some real guitar players had a blast with it.

I haven’t built any since building my CNC…but am itching to do some more in the future and will probably get the CNC involved when the itch finally becomes unbearable again!

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I love cigarbox guitars, open tuning and a bottleneck swamp slide! Blues all the way :wink:

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looks like something seasick steve would play. :+1:

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So, while I wait on parts to continue with my LR4 I’m focusing on a new workbench to put it on…and starting to think about a first “real” project once I have it dialed in…

Which already has me adjusting the dimensions I’m going to build to :rofl:

I’m not considering this a long term bench…just trying to build something “good enough” that goes together quickly and will be a good surface to work on to build a better permanent bench when I get to build my shop in a year or two.

That said - it’s also been fun practice in CAD working with dimensional lumber and planning construction and cut lists instead of just designing 3D printed parts. Sure beats the heck out of my old hand sketches and with help from opticutter figuring out how much wood to buy without running out or having a bunch left over was super easy.

My dimensional change is just to make the Y axis a bit longer … a tiny little bit. I was planning on 31" of working area. But then I looked over at my modular synth case and remembered the reason I haven’t rebuilt it is I really wasn’t happy with how the case came out. The plywood I used was low quality and my table saw was giving me a hard time so the box isn’t quite as square as I had hoped and was a little narrower than planned. Which made fitting the 3D printed support rails for the modules very difficult.

But those 3D printed rails are modeled and I have the models. So…I can easily use them to draw up a far more accurate case. And I can let the CNC drill all the support holes for me. But…the biggest piece of the case is 32" wide x 17" tall. So with 31" working area I’ll be an inch short!

Thankfully I haven’t cut my Y rail yet or my belt…so no big deal to adjust a little as this table is 8’ wide (I just don’t plan on working on pieces this wide very often and would rather have some open bench for projects/laser.

Great!

Ok…back on track…let’s start building.

@jeffeb3 mentioning getting his daughter involved in projects pushed me to ask if mine may be interested in helping with this project. She’s just shy of 15 and very much into the disinterested teen years. So I didn’t expect much of a reply. But to my surprise she eagerly offered to join in!

So off to the lumber store we went - where I learned she’s far better than me at recognizing warped and twisted boards. (Still not great…but better than me…which…was a bit of an ego check to realize just how bad I really am at it :joy:)

Back home she was excited to learn how to use the miter saw. Given that she has sensory processing issues and doesn’t like loud noises I really didn’t expect that. But with the help of some PPE she dug right in and loved it. She cut ALL the wood for the bench with just a bit of double checking from me.

And tonight she was excited to learn how to drill and screw.

My own father is disappointed that I’ve chosen to use pocket screws for this bench. He feels they’re just not strong enough for anything over 1/2" thick. But I’ve had good luck building some small benches with them and between the miter saw and pocket screws a basic frame comes together really quick.

Drilling she really enjoyed:

Screwing - she didn’t take to quite as rapidly - but she didn’t get frustrated and stuck with it eventually getting pretty good. She installed all 36 screws in these two frames and there were only about 4 or 5 I had to snug up after:

And after two evenings we’ve got two frames built and all the wood to join them cut:

But she’s got homework for her art class so we’ll have to tackle assembly of the full frame tomorrow.

I haven’t made it to the store for any MDF or particle board for the top yet so I’m not in a huge rush.

A few notes - the center support is not centered - the smaller side is where the CNC will go and I’d rather focus on supporting that part of the bench better. I also plan on a shelf underneath and would rather have more access to the other side. I may add an extra vertical 2x4 if I find I want more support there - but I’m not that worried. The frames are also backwards right now…the smaller side will go on the left (where the CNC will go) and the right side will stay open.

The frames are square within 1/4" corner to corner - and can probably be pulled in the final bit as I finish assembly. But I’m happy with them even if they don’t. I’ll still be adding a grid of MDF strips on end to support and strengthen the top. I’d rather go overkill this time since my last CNC table had flatness issues that constantly bugged me.

The old bench behind that one…we’ll trim a few feet off it this weekend so it fits in the shed and use it to help organize our shed.

Looks like my new router will be here tomorrow and jackpot/plates/goodies will be here Friday. So hopefully this will be a productive weekend!

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Heck yea! Great work by you and your daughter!

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Oh yeah…so focused on the workbench I almost forgot a few other bits and pieces came in the other day. Specifically my power supply, more endstops, and some linear rails.

Quick test fit on two of the linear rails and suddenly my color “choices” don’t look as out of place :rofl:

At least I kept things symmetrical. Both front wheels are green, and both back wheels are red. Endstops and belt mounts are also red. I was feeling pretty bad about how the red and green didn’t really go with the browns of the X gantry and YZ plates…but with the red/green on the slides matching It feels a bit more appropriate now.

Still need to take apart the old machine and get some steppers in here…but with my daughter excited to finish the bench that will probably take precedence…unless she decides she wants to help take the old machine apart as well…

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