LEGO has a trademark on their name, logo, and the shape of their minifigs (since they use that shape as part of their trademarked branding (same as the “coke bottle” for CocaCola), their patents on the bricks expired in the 70s and they have survived on innovation and brand recognition for the past fourty years. They defend their trademark (as they are required to do if they want to keep it) but anyone can make compatible bricks. A quick look through their wikipedia page shows the only legal actions related to companies making copycat sets, cloned minifigs, and that sort of stuff (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lego_clone).
The best way forward may be to get your logos, trade dress, brand identity, etc. documented and trademarked because that appears to be legally defensible (and if their isn’t a respect of copyright there is (at least in some quarters) a distaste for off-brand imitations or straight up ripoffs. Your STLs are (IMO) protected by copyright, at least so far as being used directly for printing, as you have experience with already. If you embed enough of your trademarked look&feel (logos embelishments, other non-functional but “cool” looking bits into the parts you have the basis of a trademark infringement complaint against people making remixed parts that retain your trademarks (though, like with Lego, you can’t keep people from making functionally equivalent parts (just without your TMs).
I think that if you continue to build the brand, keep a reputation for customer service and quality, and provide good support you will be able to survive any cheap imitations/knockoffs however, I think the secret is probably Trademarks since Copyrights are clearly not getting it done and Patent protection is not really an option since these are already publicly disclosed.
One bonus though: 1. Consider a very low-key Patreon or PayPal tipjar so that people who are interested can throw you a few bones on an ongoing (or one-time) basis.
And. Thank you for making sure I didn’t just check out. Tone is not my strong suit in communication by text. In person everything is usually followed with a laugh. I guess I sound like a meany without that.
Seriously, don’t give up. If you give up and just go back to your day job “those” people win by default and they’ll be encouraged to continue doing stuff like that in the future.
Being an engineer and inventing cool widgets is one thing, being a leader or voice of a movement is a 2 ton heavy thing.
We’re still talking bout peeps here.
If the peeps want to support you they will. No amount of licensing will put their hand on a GNU bible.
We are all leeches in our own dastardly ways, and we justify it in whatever way makes us not hurl. Anyone ever use company resources to photocopy their ass?
How many smarties are out there that have a severe case of the “F* Me, I could have done thats” when they see any of the DIY CNCs available.
This is just reality. Smarties will climb on top, rip & tear down everything, in hopes to bring up a bigger, better, more kissable widget.
Most here prolly want to throw money at you for doing the work, so they don’t have to strain the brains. The leeches will benefit as well, but every ecosystem needs a toilet.
So open legs, closed, right, left, US, metric, blonde, brunette, hairy or shaven, doesn’t matter. Peeps does.
IIRC none of the MP3DP parts will fit on a Prusa and none of the Prusa parts will fit on an MP3DP. That actually has been a detriment to building your design, since there are so many more mods for the Prusa. I still haven’t found a dual extruder bowden mount with level sensing and part fans, but probably could if I had a MK2. There are only three or four base designs for FDM printers and the fact that yours is has a horizontal moving X axis, a horizontal moving Y axis and a vertical moving Z axis such that the X axis sits over the middle of the Y axis and moves up with the Z axis doesn’t make it derivative enough to step on Prusa’s toes. I’d ignore the troll unless he’s with Prusa, the company.
FWIW, you don’t come off as puffy for defending your baby, just seems your waving words at that dingo, when you should be clocking it in the noggin with the boot you already have.
I still stand by my OG post here, find some hungry tubers and send kits with no strings for truth. Reap the cream, when the right one blows up. Rinse and repeat.
Tubers love free shit almost as much as subs, likes, and ringing that damn bell.
You would need to find the right sort of YouTube personality, I’d think. I wonder if Matthias Wandel would ever try assembling one? He’s thrifty enough to appreciate conduit/608 construction, certainly. Biggest risk is he starts remaking parts out of plywood and painting it green…
My layperson, IANAL view is that the MP3DP is no more derivative of the Prusa than the Wanhao Di3 (and rebrands like the Monoprice Maker Select and Cocoon Create, etc), Ender 3, Anet A8, etc. It is no more derivative of the Prusa than the Chevy Silverado is of the Ford F-150. Meaning there are some obvious similarities in overall concept and function, but all of the details are different. Parts are not compatible. The Mp3DP parts are not replacements or “upgrades.” The MP3DP is its own ecosystem independent of Prusa.
I think the only “mistake” you may have made was attaching the Prusa name to the MP3DP. That’s a company brand name. The page on the V1 web site as well as Thingiverse says, “This is my take on the Prusa i3…” I think if you changed that to “This is my take on the i3 style 3D printer…” it would be all good. If you mention Prusa at all, do it to contrast, not compare.
Doubt he’d do much if anything with it. He’s not a big fan of CNC and has done a few videos about why he doesn’t see the point of CNC for a home shop (even a man vs. machine vid where he went head to head against a CNC making the same thing.)
I suspect Ryan would just wind up with two cranky Germans questioning his engineering abilities
He did a laser video a little while ago. Maybe you could trade the CNC for one of his older bandsaws?
It’s a long shot, but Mathias doesn’t have any interest in expensive “precision” machines that are pretty often seen in youtube videos. He doesn’t have a saw stop, for example. His drills are from canadian tire (which is harbor frieght, in canada, I think). He made his own bandsaw, sander, lathe, jointer, dust collection. This fits much closer to our personality here, IMO. He also has proprietary software he sells and has plans he sells, which presumably would make him a big more friendly to Ryan’s business concerns.
There’s still a big risk that he’ll see a problem, and instead of coming here for our workaround, he’ll just complain and find his own way. It’s also very likely he just won’t do it at all.
I thought I’d register to give my 2c. I’m not trying to troll, I just thought that my perspective would be useful, as I think too often these days we can fall into echo chambers. I come at this as a bit of an open source fanatic. I generally have the philosophical view that copyright and patents hold humanity back.
I stumbled upon MPCNC about a year ago, and have been oscillating between wanting to build one, and not. I really liked the cheapness and potential, but I must admit the licence has put me off. When I delve into projects like this, I like to customise, tweak and re-release stuff. I knew this wasn’t possible for this project, so this, and just general laziness put me off building it.
For me it’s purely a hobby, and I understand that Ryan wants to protect his income. I think that there’s still plenty of money to be made with an open source versions of all of his hardware, but I’m hardly an expert. There are plenty of people out there supporting open source hardware directly, instead of buying clones (think Duet3d).
I would love to see MPCNC become open source, and I don’t see a sudden downfall of V1 Engineering because of this.
I also think that the same ethical situation between Tom’s part and MPCNC and Prussia and the MP3DP exists. I don’t believe there’s anything legally preventing the “derivative”, but I see both as going against the “spirit” of the original creator. One day somebody is going to create an open source CNC that will achieve what MPCNC does, and I think that will make this project redundant.
I think it would be better to preempt this and make the project more palatable for the “religious” like myself.
I hope I can fix some of your misconceptions without offending.
There’s nothing stopping you from doing that, as long as you’re willing to release it CC-NC. Just look at the list of remixes on TV.
It’s not just that. It’s also protecting the project. Having a full time engineer on the project and free support. No ads in the forums, etc.
Maybe, but it’s not your risk to take. There have been cases of ebay sellers selling mpcnc parts and there have been measurable reductions in sales, and increased problems in the forums.
There are many open source cnc machines. This is project is still unique. Add to that the revisions that Ryan makes. There’s no reason another project couldn’t take the steam, or that this project will fizzle out (nothing’s permanent). But just another open source cnc machine isn’t enough. A copy, maybe.
At what cost? The risk of tanking the whole thing for the benefit of what’s “right” igniring what is practical. I personally love open source and contribute here for free. I will gladly take an NC license and accessability over open source, but not obtainable.
Thank you for your point of view, it really does help me to wrap my head around this.
I think Jeff has a great handle on the perspective from this “side”.
The one thing I will add is we are now actively trying to make this more open, and I will watch how that goes to see if we should proceed in small increments or not. We are working on getting instructions and other documents more accessible for everyone to be able to contribute, or translate.
As for the MP3DP I hope to get that back up shortly with the license Nophead and Prusa used for it, and files that requires.
Hmm, seem to be having some issues quoting Jeffeb3. It keeps coming up as Ryan’s post.
I don’t to pour work into something closed source, no offence, but I see it as wasted effort. Everything I design, I try to keep open. Not that I’m saying Ryan should change his licence if that’s what he want’s to do, it is his project! Again, I’m just sharing my perspective.
In regards to the Ebay sellers, you might find that will happen regardless. Especially once someone comes along and clones the project with another licence and refuses to budge. I’d say that may have just become more likely with the current kerfuffle. I’m not saying that’s a good thing. Tom’s threats to open source the machine is a dickish thing to do.
I really like how you’ve handled this, as it would be pretty hypocritical to leave it in the current licence. It sucks to have to change it, but it really does draw a sharp parallel with what Tom did. Do you really need to provide the step files though? Surely the STLs with the appropriate licence would be enough. It’s not like you used their cad files!
I think the idea of branding the 3d printed parts with your logo/watermark is a good one. It is more enforceable as copyright as it’s not a “functional” feature. It will probably give you more sway protecting your stuff on ebay and the like, and help with brand recognition.
As an aside, one of the other things that slightly put me off with the project is the metric/imperial issue, nut trap and conduit/tube sizing. As I’ve obviously never built the machine, I’m not sure how true what I’ve read is. Things are a little different here in Australia size wise and as a noob I would have been more inclined to build had a parametric model been available. It gives a bit more flexibility in sourcing local materials, and dialling in tolerances for my specific printer. I understand that this would be a PITA though.
I am interested in learning about this mindset, not putting effort into something CC-BY-NC. Because for me I don’t see it as a barrier to sharing so other people can use it. Among other DIY-ers it makes no difference but if a third party ebay seller wants to make a quick buck, it does slow them down.
Im not attacking your stance, it’s your right, I’m just wanting to understand why NC influences you.
