Agreed, I think that we should take the high road vs. the opponents in Tom’s community. There’s plenty of name calling from that side. Time to move on and support the people who actually want to make stuff.
This was one of the first serious options someone outlined for me. I still do not fully understand it but I have not dismissed it.
I think we are just trying to get Bryan’s perspective, maybe it is not the right thing. His is not the only one and trying to accommodate one might not make a difference. This is just a crazy situation I do not understand and it is hard for me not to understand things. I have taken apart anything I have ever owned since a very young age, just to see how and why. I can drop it though.
Sorry Dirt, too far. I removed that one. I really appreciate him coming here (could have just been a countless other comment) to offer the perspective and I think I needed to hear it. No need to take it any further.
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Hah, I thought I was soft-balling that one! My perspective is aggressive.
Don’t waste brain cells trying to understand motivations of half informed people. Drop it and move forward.
Hi
I’ve been reading all the way through this thread. I just want to say:
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I’m 100% behind you here Ryan. You did nothing wrong! I also understand your urge to have everything sorted. I’m that way myself.
I absolutely hate when something get’s out of control, and i can’t seem to get it fixed. Doesn’t matter if it’s personal or business. -
I recently build myself a MPCNC, and have been loving everything about it. The build process, the first experiences and tinkering with it, making my own add-ons and so on. (Haven’t gotten around to sharing any pics yet, sorry)
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This forum, or rather the people in it, are the best! The way that the conversations are kept in a sober tone, is very refreshing. Any namecalling or other improper outbursts, are swiftly and politely corrected. Love it!
Thank you all, especially Ryan, for providing this to the world. As i get more experienced, I hope i can give some back.
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Well shizzlesticks,
What a poor state of fuckery this is.......
Seems the new kid in town tried to steal your girlfriend and ride off into the land of bullshit and make believe.
Too bad he forgot his ride is only 234K deep.
Times like this call for some slight of the wavy hand business.
Dazzle those dames with a shiny new ride with them gold or platinum exhausted tubers.
Then we can eclipse this pion back to his hum drum 234K existence.
There’s a good and plenty amount of hungry goldies that would raise the flag and salute.
When all is settled, your old lady was just too danged classy to hitch a ride in some “economy” class vehicle. And she thought that crack someone made about an open the legs upgrade was a joke.
Definitely a time for a new product.
I suggest modifying the MPCNC with official parts for mounting a 100W CO2 laser!
Man, I ain’t interested until it’s pushing at least a kilowatt.
Is the MP3DP in violation of Prusa Research’s GLP3? I felt every part was different enough from all prusa’s and mendel’s, maybe not, nothing is compatible in any way. Same issue as this thread I suppose, I saw a mendel and a prusa and made a version of them.
I will take any opinions at this point. Be honest.
Today seems to be pester Ryan day, people seem to be digging through all of my accounts and messaging me. Shopify is even getting spammed with fake accounts for the shop all week.
Tough question. Did you import the stls into your cad? Did you take any dimensions off of his parts? Did you copy aspects of the parts, even by eye? Were those copies not purely functional?
If so, then maybe. I am still of the opinion that no one involved is willing to pay for the legal battles to find the correct answer to any of this, and it may come down to whether the judge had a good lunch or not that day. You’re probably taking a risk by publishing prusa-like parts, but he’ll never come bother you about it.
Well I make next to zero dollars on those parts since day 1 and now I’m being asked to comply by a person on thingiverse. I have no issues removing it as I do not have any time to spend making files available or whatever is being asked of that GPL. I made it because I needed more printers, and it is a nice project for the CNC, not as a product. If it is a big deal, I will remove it, but I think this is being stretched too far. No files were used, it is not compatible with any printers that I know of. It is based on every Cartesian printer I have seen and worked on.
I will take it down if I get any more flac for it. If CC nc is not appreciated then why bother. Less to maintain, no firmware, instructions, parts, store inventory.
I can just use them privately and bother no one.
The person asking me to comply is making a derivative of mine…go figure.
I’d be bothered. Both as a builder of the mp3dp and as a friend here.
If you’re really worried about the license, then change the license to gpl3.
Unless you were hacking up Prusa STLs directly to make yours it isn’t a derivative as far as ©️ is concerned since useful objects are not copyrightable. I would politely tell them to go pound sand.
Don’t let the haters get to you.
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Sticky…that is what Tom said about mine. I felt he did not change enough for it not to be a derivative. Sounds like I need to delete it.
Doesn’t that require I maintain some source files or something? If I all I have to do is change the license, no problem, if there is anything else it is gone. If I need to make a fresh design no problem, if I ever need to build more I might do that. I have one half complete with a 3 piece frame, wild!
You follow the license from the version you copied, if they changed it. If you copied it from a CC0 part, then that’s the license you follow.
If you took .step files and copied/remixed those to make your stls, then maybe you need to post some .steps. If you started with .stls, then you’re not obligated to make .step files or some solid works files for them.
I’m still not a lawyer and I don’t use GPL3 because it is so unfriendly to my work. I also am having a hard time figuring out how it works for hardware.
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Dam, I copied nothing, I doubt I even referenced pics, just things from memory. Working at robo I had handled many thousands of printers so kinda hard to forget things, or admire design choices of others. I remember thinking how many things were similar but different in the end when I saw a prusa in real life. Most of the major design choices are made by the geometry of the axis and using the least expensive readily available parts (means prusa compatible parts), things are similar. Too similar. As I am unsure about this, not being a lawyer and all, and most outside of this forum hate my point of view on licensing I think it is best to remove it. That sucks, I’ll make another, purposefully different, which is odd as I will actually have to reference the other machines more to make sure I copy nothing.
I guess this is what I am asking of others. If your idea comes out super close, if you copied it or not, is too similar count it as a derivative. You have no idea if you are copying from memory or not.All ideas are simple once you see the solution but getting to that solution is the hard part.
I just convinced myself that I did not copy a prusa or mendel but actually did. I will hold on to everything and if I have time I will try to comply with the license.
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Sounds like it could be trolling for percieved inconsistency between MP3DP and MPCNC.
In fact there is no inconsistency because you are using the concept (as do many others) but not lifting the design. Likewise using the concept of conduit for linear rails/frame is kosher but reverse engineering an admitted derivative and implying it’s an improved equivalent is not okay.
This level of detail will be lost on many people and it might not be worth it in the end.
I say it’s trolling because, seriously, why?
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You can’t copyright that part if it though. That is patentable, as long as it’s unique. If you think of your stl as a book. The words in the book are the copyright. If you write a book about a boy wizard who lives under the stairs, that’s not a violation. If you take pages of harry potter and retype it, that’s copying. If you take pages from harry potter and write it out by hand in a notebook, that’s copying.
If you really didn’t import a file or use an image or something as reference, then you’re fine. But that’s my intepretation. If you want to appease others then just change the MP3DP license to CC0 or GPL3.
I think Tom is different because he used dimensions from your part, which (in my opinion) is like copying a page from harry potter. I think we all agree that something that just mated with your screw holes and pipes wouldn’t be copying. But having the same proportions or the same tolerances or the same bevels and chamfers is closer to a copy. Actually using vertices from your file is even closer to a copy. Somewhere, there is a line drawn. There are even further exceptions to the line for things that aren’t “art”. But these things have funny definitions in law and it’s not obvious to the rest of us where that stands.
Besides that, the real affront is the plan to essentially copy the entire machine puts it squarely in the jerk move category. I don’t think you’re being a jerk for releasing the mp3dp with CC-NC. Maybe someone disagrees. If you’d rather not fight it, post it CC0. Prusa isn’t going to come after you either way. It’s just to avoid a fight.
Take some time to think about it. There’s no rush. A day or two won’t hurt anything.
I think removing it would be a mistake. It would add fuel, IMO.
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The person asking I think started out just being a punk, after a week of replies he reversed his opinion and deleted all of his comments. It made me think though.
This is exactly what I am asking of people. No matter if I copied the files, dimensions, “from scratch”, whatever, it is a mendel/prusa build. If I had not seen one I would never have had such a similar design. So mine was a derivative, so the design intent of Nophead and Prusa was GPL, I can and should respect that. I have no idea what that entails for a derivative and do not intend on reading another page of legal-ease anytime soon. At the same time I am not going any further back, just because the 3D printers we commonly know started as GPL they are based on expired patents so as far as I am concerned 3D printers are now public domain and their implementations are their right to choose license. The first 3D printer I saw was a very expensive fortus 3D printer at school ($500 a cartridge(spool). I too closely copied a design as I respect them as designers, people I looked up to and I thought it was flattering, but maybe it is not, I have no idea. What I did was release files I should not have. I should have just used it as a design exercise to learn why they made those choices. Use that knowledge to make something new.
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