Hello,
New to the design, new to the forum and overall rookie here. I’m trying to get acquainted with the design and acquire parts required for the build, but not trying to get too far ahead of myself.
I was recently at a local Alro buying some metal for a different (work) project, and saw a 3/4" Schedule 40 tube that seemed to fit the bill, so I purchased it on a whim, and figured I could return it if needed. It was $60 for $10ft, and I was hoping to get either - confirmation that what I have will work, or whether I should go with something different. The OD of the tube is 1.050" and the wall thickness is 0.125". I’m not sure if this will or will not work, and thought i’d ask.
I notced that the amazon link to the SS is currently unavailable, which is why I ask. I did find this as an option; https://www.verociousmotorsports.com/Shop-by-Category/Tubing-stainless-3a-316-0100
And it looks like I could get all the tube I needed for about $100 total. Does that seem right to you guys who have more experience?
Also - I’m pretty set on making it 4’ wide, similar to the full build, but wanted to get other’s thoughts on the length - do you typically use it as a full 4x8 sheet, or would you have recommended building something smaller, to take up less space? I saw a post somewhere (youtube I think) about a hinged design that stores the table vertically rather than horizontally, which could/would be a big benefit.
Mostly trying to learn as much as I can before jumping in with both feet… and also hoping to understand if I need to return the Schedule 40 pipe sooner rather than later.
1.05" = 26.6mm. That is 1.2mm too big for the largest size.
You should be able to find 3/4" conduit pipe, which is measured by OD but has a very standard 23.5mm outside diameter. Or you can search for 1.00" tubing, which is 25.4mm on the outside. Tubing would be sold by a shop that caters to metal workers. It seems to be a regional thing. But if you have a home depot, you probably have a store that sells 1"OD steel tubing.
I think @jeffeb3 overlooked the fact that your question is in the Lowrider forum.
Conduit doesn’t work for the Lowrider.
However he’s on the money regarding the .050" being to big to fit.
I used 1" 4130 Chrome-Moly tubing rather than stainless and it has worked fine, but stainless is probably better if you live in a humid environment. I live in a near desert environment…
Alro should have the 1" OD tubing you need. I got a quite from them for my mpcnc build and it came out to a few hundred dollars for 20’. But I don’t have one of their retail stores near by.
As far as pricing… I was able to get 20’ of SS tubing for $70. And that was cut to length. 1"OD .65" wall thickness.
This is all super helpful information!
So what I’m taking from this is:
I need to return the pipe i bought. No worries, I took a shot, didnt work out. I would have had to get some anyways.
20’ of SS tubing for $70 sounds like a steal of a deal, cause I was finding the CHEAPEST i could get some right now was going to be $100-$120 (and that was with a sketchy site lol), so I feel like I’m missing something. Metals Depot was good on tube pricing but not great on shipping. Alro is also appearing to be costly on the shipping as well. May have to make a trip down to a local warehouse to see if i can get some, or just tag onto a local machine shops’ order if they’ll let me.
What is the cutlist for the SS Tubing? I saw the parts list that just listed “1inX ss tube Y” but no cut length. (I assume this is because you can make it whatever size you want, but I’m basing mine off a 4x8 cut panel assumption, and can change downward from there if needed/desired.
I’m interested to hear the SS recommendation. I get for humid areas (like mine - Florida) that you’d want corrosion prevention, but my mind went to Aluminum, not SS. I’ll have to check prices, but I was thinking a double-thick wall of Aluminum would probably give a similar stiffness ratio (EI) as a thin walled SS, but maybe I’m wrong. Note: we used ModulusAreaMoment to get a close approximation of how comparative materials would perform in regard to bending).
For someone who hasnt built this yet - Is there a pipe wall thickness concern? I think I read on one of the forum posts as I was looking for this topic that someone suggested that aluminum would wallow-out over time. Is that a big concern, or are there other considerations, such as wire routing, etc. Also - is there a reason that the support tubes arent used for wire routing? Again, pardon my ignorance, I haven’t built this up… yet!
For those of you sighing saying " just buy the dang SS tube" - the only reason I ask, is - what have people learned over time? Do they wish they had a thicker wall of SS? Do they wish they had a lighter design (aluminum)? Is heavier better?
It’s probably worth noting that I’m currently pursuing the SS tube route, but hearing numbers down around the $45-70 range are really enticing, when the lowest numbers I’m seeing are in the $120 range for trustworthy sites and $100 for the more dodgy sites…
Thanks for all your help! You guys are amazing!
Lastly - Pete had made mention of ‘oh yea, this is the lowrider forum’ or something to that effect. Is there something bigger/badder out there that I should be looking at instead? My thought(s) were that I wanted to build a large-format CNC machine for cheap, and it seemed that Lowrider was the best way to do this. If there’s a better option out there, I am all ears!
Thanks guys. Again, really appreciate your help!
Note: I may have been mixing my CNC’s with the “$45” comment - it looks like that was on the MPCNC page, not the Lowrider page. My bad.
Let me start by saying I’m building a MPCNC and have been reading the forums extensively. The only info I have on the LR2 is from what I have happened upon on here over the last couple months. And I have no actual expirence with either finished machine. I’m simply regurgitating and summarizing information I have read elsewhere on the forums. The others on here have far more expierence then me (people like Jeff and Tim and pete) so if they contradict anything I have said, LISTEN TO THEM! now onto the answers I can provide…
Correct
I found this by doing a Google search for “steel supply” then looking on each website to see if they offered SS or DOM. Then getting quotes from each that offered those materials. The place I bought from was a locally owned metal salvage and supply company.
Not sure if its the same for the LR2, but the MPCNC has a calculator in the docs page. You enter your dimensions and it gives you a complete cut list.
SS seems to be the most popular, DOM is a little better but COULD rust. Though from what I have seen on here that is not a real concern as it would take years to rust and even that can be solved by using a wax to finish the steel with.
The general consensus on the forum is that aluminum will deform where the steel bearing run on the tubing. I think it is safer to run with steel, as weight seems to be a secondary concern under making sure everything is tight (a little gap between the bearing and tubing can cause BIG problems)
My understanding is you want a wall thickness between 0.065 and 0.12. Thinner and you get to much flex, thicker and the extra weight is more detrimental then the gains from the extra strength.
This is done and recommended on the MPCNC. not sure about the LR2
He pointed this out to Jeff because Jeff was thinking of the MPCNC. I am not aware of a cheaper, good, cnc capable of handling full 4’x8’ sheets.
From what I have seen people have learned a wealth of information but its particular to their application and use of their machine. The biggest recommendation i have heard over and over is “build it stock first and get it dirty, then you will know what you want to improve”
With all of that being said; I liked your summary at the end - “build it first, get it dirty and then improve”. Should I consider starting with a smaller (MPCNC) and then upgrading to a LR2 later? I like the idea of being able to cut out custom shapes, but dont have a specific “need” in mind for anything right now. Perhaps starting smaller is better? I’m not sure the cost difference either between the MPCNC & LR2… unfortuantely money is not an infinite resource, so that is one of the top considerations.
Note: Random/funny background - the whole reason I’m even thinking about doing this is I saw a really cool episode of Grand Designs (english home makeover/build show) where some guys literally built an entire house with just the use of a CNC. (Well, the frame and stuff, of course not EVERYTHING). Thought I’d share it here for you CNC fanatics in case you hadn’t seen or heard of it before. Here’s two links to it (surprised its online!) if you’re interested:
Or if you’re suspicious of links (no judgement) - you can google “Grand Designs CNC House” and its the ~46min episodes you’re looking for. I think Prime also has them unless I’m mistaken - S12, E02.
Interested to hear your thoughts on if i should start small and graduate upward, or if I should go straight for the LR2 gusto…
There are calculators for the required tubing lengths and table size in both Inches and Millimeters.
Basically you need about 4 x 1’/400mm tubes for the Z axis and 2 x 5’/1500mm tubes for the X axis.
I’m sure Aluminum won’t survive. I’d have doubts about mild steel sorking well on a Lowrider due to the length of the X tubes. I’d stick to stainless or something with comparable physical properties (hardness, tensile strength, etc). As noted above I used 4130, but that’s mostly just because I already had some.
I think Ryan recommends .065" wall tubing. The 4130 I used is .058", but my Lowrider isn’t full sheet size width. If you have to order it anyway, go with .065;
thicker will just cost more and has no benefit.
The Lowrider is the only “large format” design V1 offers. The MPCNC is smaller. I only brought that up to clarify that the conduit Jeff mentioned is not an option for the Lowrider.
Yea, absolutely - I’m not looking at conduit after you guys clarified that that won’t work for the LR2; but This is helpful in understanding what else is out there so I can make sure to get the right stuff!
Just got a quote from the local Alro Outlet! Way cheaper than the regular Alro stores; so if you have one - I cannot recommend them more highly. Every other place I looked was at least $100 then I had to pick up - anything shipped directly to me was at least $120 direct-shipped.
Here’s the quote for a 20ft. piece… now I’m wondering if I can wrangle a MPCNC in there too (but I havent even looked into that yet; but Atom is selling me on its benefits in the PM). lol
Yall are awesome - thanks for all the help. Killer help/support.
Funny story:
When I did an “online order” on Alro.com for the same thing, the piece came to approximately $95 (okay, in the noise, whatever) - - but the shipping on the 20ft piece was $1180! So a $95 piece became over $1200 shipped. Crazy.
They can’t ship anything longer than like 4’ by USPS or ups. So it turns into freight. So you were going to pay a semi to drop off 1 piece of steel thats why it was so expensive
If you’re in FL check a boat supply store. SS tubing is common in boating and I was able to snag some from a shop a mile or two down the road for dirt cheap!
The owner of the store is my neighbor. He does wholesale and told me he gets 8ft sections for $1 per foot but didn’t tell me what he sold it for. The tubing for my full sheet lowrider cost me 2LBs of chicken wings and some beer! XD
An additional answer for part of question #5 that wasn’t addressed above. On both the Lowrider and the MPCNC, the tubes can be used to run wires to the motors and other components on the far side of the machine from the control box. They can’t be used to run the connections to the spindle itself (or the MPCNC Z axis) because those parts move across the machine.
I loved that episode and I love grand designs. I am pretty sure if I ended up making anything bigger than a shed I would regret doing it myself. But I have a small attention span for these things.
now onto the answers I can provide…