Question about setting the gantry rails?

Hi,

Has anybody measured the amount of torque (Nm) required to tighten the bolts A1, A2, and B?

I can’t seem to get a satisfying result.

If the core or gantry should behave similar to the trucks on the rail - which I’ve tightened to 1.3 Nm -, then I need far more force here it seems. I’d say a little over 2 Nm is required.
However, the guide for instance states that the A1 and A2 bolts should only be seated at 7 in/lbs, which translates to 0.79 Nm.
If I set them like this, the core moves very loosely, there’s a lot of play, and not all bearings sit against the 25mm steel tube.

Any ideas?

Those bolts are 10,000x stronger than the plastic there. Don’t think in terms of torque. Think in terms of position. You need to get the position right, not the torque, and not the tension.

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Yes, that’s mentioned all-over in the guide and clear.

So how do you get the position right? Or what is the right position?

The position is right when all of the bearings are just in contact with the steel rail.

Most of the torque goes to overcoming the friction of the nylon ring, and practically zero goes to actually providing clamping force.

OK, that seems visually rather hard to establish, since only a small part of the inner bearings is visible. This makes it hard to for instance see, whether all of them turn, when moving the rail.
And doing it by checking the play between the bearings and the rail is probably not a good indicator, since the rail passes through two clamps, which makes it hard to predict where exactly there is still play and where not.

Honestly, I don’t understand why there aren’t more precise instructions.

“The rail should have slight tension and feel good with no nuts in place.”

What does feel good mean?

“If your rail is loose or too tight there could be other issues.”

What is too loose or tight?

“The rails should have a slight drag and feel the same with and without the nuts in place.”

That’s not at all the case. Not all bearings are touching the rail and there is plenty of play. And I’ve done everything else exactly like indicated in the guide.

Considering that the plastic can slightly squish under pressure, trying to find a good torque isn’t practical. after I built my core and ran the system for a while, I ended up taking apart most of the MPCNC and re-tightened virtually every nut/bolt.
Unfortunately, it seems like its more of a trial-and-error situation.
I slowly tightened my nuts (giggle) until the bearing had near constant pressure on the rails. That is, if I held my finger on the bearing and tried to move the rail, there was little-to-no slipping for the bearing face against the rail. That’s my method and may not be correct, so take that as you will.

Also keep in mind that with all of the parts, there are multiple bearings with their own set of nuts/bolts that make the tightening as a whole a bit complex. One bearing may seem perfect, but tightening a bolt opposite of that one can throw it off.

It really isn’t that huge of a deal though. When my setup was loose, the bearings chattered, but the cutting was still fairly good. After the rebuild everything was much more quiet, but quality of the cut still seemed the same.

Just make sure your grub screws on the motors are tight lol

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I was (and am) able to check by bearings. I use a pair of silicone tipped tweezers to see if I can rotate the bearings. If I can “easily” then they’re loose. If I can with “some resistance” they’re good. If that tool isn’t able to rotate them, then they’re too tight.

I realize that this is ambiguous. My intuition on this is borne from years of tinkering with mechanical things, like engines and other machines. There is a feel to a bearing that is properly loaded which is just not possible to measure well with a torque wrench, since the proper amount of friction is very low, but present. A bearing that is too loose will also have other slop, which causes problems with impact. One that is too tight will have too much friction and create more heat than you want.

The tolerances for the MPCNC are actually quite wide, because it’s low impact, and low speed.

To put it in more measurable terms the test mentioned fore the trucks also works for the core. If you tilt the gantry rail at 30°, the core should not roll at “free-fall” but rather roll at a more controlled pace. That is that it should reach it’s terminal velocity within about 12-18" of travel. (Terminal velocity in this case meaning that it should no longer accelerate.) This isn’t really a defined speed, because there is a fairly wide variation, depending on the surface finish of your rails, the stiffness of new bearings (Which are always stiffer when new) and the actual mass of your parts. There is some tolerance for a little overtightening, because the plastic will deform slightly over time.

In this case, I’d say that it means that the movement is smooth and not “sticky”. There should be little force needed to overcome static friction, and the bearings should not have “too much” tendency to come to a complete halt. I base this off of what bearings in other projects feel like. If you’ve built 3D printers, you should have some idea what well adjusted linear bearings feel like, and this is not dissimilar.

As per above. Too loose is if there’s isn’t enough drag on the motion, which will allow motion in the XY plane that will cause slop in the finished cut. Too tight is if the bearings bind and do not allow proper motion with the supplied amount of power. Motor power needed to overcome bearing friction reduces power available to move the router through the work.

This might mean that your prints are not dimensionally accurate. Maybe slicer settings. Hole compensation (Making holes bigger) will allow more movement of the axle bolts which will reduce overall bearing tension. A little underextrusion will do the same. There is some adjustment available, and as I said, the plastic WILL change over time. I’ve had to tighten my Primo a couple of times over the past year of operation.

Some of the things that I’ve seen that indicate tightening is required:

  • Nut/Bolt combinations turning with the bearings. The bolts should remain stationary. If they’re turning, then there’s friction where it shouldn’t be, and the rotational load is not being taken by the bearings, as it should be.
  • Movement in the core relative to the XY plane. This indicates that the core bearings have some play between them and the gantry rails. This is sometimes seen as “chatter” in the bit, and sometimes as flex when cutting. A finishing pass that does not contact the work probably means that the bit was pulling inwards during the roughing pass.
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We (the users here) don’t have this down to a science. If there is a perfect position, it may be different on your prints, or with your hardware, or for your purpose. There is probably a wide range of ok values. Just don’t go overboard and you can adjust it later. Those bottles are meant for you to find tune your build. Too loose and the bearings will rattle around and you will have some slop. Too tight and something may crack, the build may not be square, or the bearings can bind.

Yes, I’ve read that over and over in different threads, but the thing is that some instructions are very superficial, maybe even contradictory, and that makes it hard to know how to assemble the machine in the first time.

That’s seems feasible! Thanks.

Those are very tight and lock-tight-ed!

OK, but the guide throws these torque wrench values around numerous times.

This is what I asked about above! If I tighten bolts A1, A2, and B with 1.3 Nm, which is what I used for the trucks, the behaviour on the rail is very different and rather loose. For the trucks I feel like I’ve found a nice balance. Given that the core is geometrically different, it’s understandable that it behaves differently. I need to tighten the bolts to over 2 Nm to get some resistance here.

My printer is very well calibrated and inside an enclosure. I know what I’m doing here. I’ve been 3D printing for over 6 years now and I used some nice quality PLA for the mpcnc parts.

I’ve settled for now on 4.5 Nm torque, measured with a wrench.
The rattling and play is gone, the bearings all touch the rail, none of the little plastic bearing holders have been crushed, there is a slight resistance now, and it feels right.

Thank for all the suggestions!

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