I mainly want to machine wood, mostly plywood but maybe also solid wood. Can someone tell me how loud my machine will be approx. in dB?
I heared spindles like Dewalt, Makita or Kress are extremly loud compared to those China spindles, and if you want to get silent the most imporant part is to get one of those China spindles (water cooled, not air cooled) or something better?
Is there someone with such a setup and can tell me how loud the machine will be with and without housing?
There also seems to be mainly two different spindles and you should go with the ER20 one? Estlcam: 2D / 3D CAM und CNC Steuerung...
I also spend quite some time on the calculator page:
As far as I know you shouldn’t go quite larger than 60x60cm and 81mm height. But what is the relevant size for me? What is the difference between Table Size and Total Machine Footprint?
Does this really need roughly 1x1m?
Again a 100x50cm footprint would be 60x10cm workspace?!
Doest this machine really waste that much space?
My table is about 120x85cm and there is no chance to fit a 100x50cm workspace there
I don’t have a db number. But you need hearing protection. The shop vac is as loud as the router and the bit hitting the wood is almost as loud as the router (I can clearly hear them both when running and I have a dewalt). Personally, I don’t see a benefit of a quiet spindle, because I need hearing protection anyway, and once the bit hits the wood, or I turn on the vac, it is so loud, I don’t want to hear any of it.
The sound is relatively constant though (unlike someone using a miter saw) and it isn’t as loud as a hammer. I use the machine in the garage while my kids are sleeping. Even if they can hear it, they don’t wake up. I think because it is more like a constant drone once it goes through the walls.
The corners can stick a little bit further than the width of the feet. So you could put it on a perfectly sized table, and the corners and motor mounts would hang out farther, and you couldn’t put the table flat up against a wall.
Yes. My rule of thumb is that it has about a foot for the machine in either direction, so a 24"x24" machine uses about 36" each direction (but use the calculator for more refined numbers). That is about 90cmx90cm for a 60cmx60cm machine.
You could maybe have a removable board on the top to make a large work surface that the CNC can live on, and that would fit on your table, but it will take up a lot of space. That is just the nature of the beast. 100cmx50xcm is a good sized machine though.
In this comparison of the Makita, Dewalt, and spindle, Eric found the spindle much quieter, but significantly underperformed the routers. And this was a 500 watt spindle, which is not the lowest you will find.
you shouldn’t go quite larger than 60x60cm and 81mm height
I see people posting on the forum about MPCNC machines significantly bigger than these numbers all the time. You just need to understand that you pay a performance penalty (especially in the Z height) if you go bigger.
While it varies a bit based on your choices and the axis, you need approximately 380mm beyond the working area X and Y for the total footprint.
How much difference an enclosure makes will depend on how you construct it. My enclosure made a substantial difference, but I found during the summer it also held in a lot of heat in an already hotish room. Plus as Jeff mentions, my enclosure does nothing to quiet the vacuum when I use one.
My table is about 120x85cm
If you need it to fit on this table with nothing hanging over, your max size is about 830mm x 425mm.
I agree with Jeff, it’s a mill, it’s going to be loud, if you can give us some specifics about why your concerned about noise we may be able to help come up with some options for you (we have people that put these machine in their bed rooms, under their kids rooms and others that just don’t like noise. The solutions for each are different.) But in general wherever the mpcnc and its accessories are will be quite loud. Though I have seen some very ingenious methods for noise damppening entire areas (such as the midsized closet space you would need for a reasonable sized MPCNC & vac you would want)
It is my understanding that much over 3’ or 91cm in a direction is a good reason to consider the lowrider rather than the MPCNC 2’X2’ or about 61x61cm working area is the recommended starting size if your new to cnc routers. As Robert says, you can go larger but you pay a price in accuracy and in ease of use (smaller machines are more forgiving of bad CAM then larger ones).
Whatever spindle you use should fit the size tool you plan to use. For most of us that is a 1/8" or 3.175mm shank if you want to use larger or smaller shanks then you should make sure that your spindle accepts that size collet.
The amount of space used is small compared to its capabilities. It may take a little more room than an aluminum machine but costs a fraction of that. Though it does depend largely on what you want to do. If you can let us know your plans we may be able to steer you in the right direction.
I personally find the dewalt shrill. The makita is variable speed and I can find a freq. that doesn’t make my teeth hurt.
My shop vac is enclosed and not too bad. Still wear muffs but the neighbors aren’t complaining.
The cheapo spindles can also have quite a bit of runout, and with the way the collet adapter is attached, have too much endmill stick out. Creates too much of a lever arm from the cutting point to the bottom of the spindle mount.
That seems to be a 500W air cooled spindle? I was looking for a water cooled 1500-2500W spindle, they seem to be a lot quieter.
I probably need an enclosure because of the dust and maybe because of the sound, but for the vacuum… I see a lot of people not running one or clean manually every few minutes?
@Chop91for vacuum if you don’t mind spending a lot for one get a lead vac.
I worked for a company that does EPA Lead Paint Safety classes and the vac we used was really quiet. Put it in an enclosure and noise wouldn’t be an issue.
If I’m not mistaken they run about $500. But they really are nice.
The thing with noise is there are many things you can do. And some of them aren’t too expensive. If you have time and are resourceful.
Personally, I’d suggest you do a search on noise reduction. You’ll see that basically you have to ways to do it. One is at the source. So getting a tool that makes less noise is a start. The other is to do something with the sound once it’s created. So things like enclosures help contain it.
There are techniques like using milk crates and other items with weird surfaces, or or moving blacks that are very effective. You just have to figure out what you’re putting in the enclosure, how much space you have and how much money you’re willing to spend. The more time you’re willing to put into research or the more money you’re willing to spend on buying something already made will determine how much you reduce the noise.
FYI, two days ago I was watching a YouTuber who built an enclosure for his shop vac. He did a pretty crummy job IMHO but he reduced the noise. Not enough for all the effort he made, but even a bad enclosure will reduce noise.
Oh and on Vacs one big source of noise is the exhaust. So like an engine or gun if you baffle it (e.g. make a muffler) it will have a large impact on the noice (just like adding or removing a muffler on your car). The other the motor is harder and why putting it in an enclosure helps.
You still have the bit chewing up wood. That is never going to be quiet. Just my $0.02, but I would rather pay $50 for some good hearing protection with bluetooth and listen to music or a podcast or something.
I am concerned because of the neighbours and also my family (currently living with my parents). So yes, ideally it wouldn’t be more noticeable than my 3D printer and I could put it in my bedroom
There are people that like noise like this?
If I would have my own house, I would build a small seperate room just for my cnc and look through cameras or a control window on the machine
I am new to CNC and about 90% of things I want to make fits in 60x60cm workspace, just the z axis could be a problem, but that is in general a problem of the MPCNC, but a useable z axis of 30cm is also not necessary for most stuff I do.
As mentioned I mainly want to machine plywood and solidwood.
My main problem is I need to find a space to put it somewhere in my parents house or workshop and 1x1m or even bigger is so bulky
Ideally it wouldn’t be a lot bigger than my 3D Printer with its enclosure, but then again 60x60x60 machine footprint results in 20x20x10cm workspace and I would need about 60x60
Well, your 3D printer has no forces on it. And if it is a typical one, it has 20cmx20cm area too
It isn’t a cnc machine though. It will be dusty, dirty, bulky (not compared to an oven or table saw, but compared to a 3D printer) and yes, loud. It is ripping hundreds of tiny pieces of wood off every second.
Maybe a laser is a better fit?
For a 3D printer the size is fine, but on a cnc I want to do larger stuff, also the plywood here seems to come in 60x120cm Ideally that would fit as a whole, but no space for such a large machine
I also thought about a laser, but that could only do about 1/3 of the stuff I want to do. Also I don’t really trust into laser, the one that you could e.g. attach on the MPCNC or those china lasercutter: https://www.cigarbox-guitars.ch/images/gallery/Chinalaser/China_Laser.jpg
I don’t really trust in those or that they are save (e.g. laser can’t exist somewhere, or toxic smoke doesn’t get filtered etc)
A few times I used a 30000€ trotec lasercutter in a maker space, but such a laser cutter I can’t afford
Sine you describe yourself as new to cnc, I want to warn you about
Do not expect to be able to run a cnc router/mill unattended like a 3D printer. Devastating and potentially deadly fires can and have started in seconds and there are several videos posted online attesting to this fact.
I know and I also never had my 3D Printer unattended.
Ideally I would just have a seperate small room for my CNC with a small control window, so all the noise, dust etc stays there but I can watch it^^
Also it would be more safe since you can’t really get hurt if something goes wrong in the room next to you, but if you stay next to the CNC maybe.
The big hazard, in my mind, is the 600W spindle dropping too far into the wood and using all that power to make friction, which quickly turns your workpiece, table and then everything else into a fireball. I honestly leave my printer alone most of the time. But I don’t do that with a CNC.
You could build an enlosure, but it would add a lot of bulk, and
nature chips will find a way to get out.
And unless you’re sucking the dust/chips out of the enclosure, the window/camera will quickly become obscured.
If it would be in a seperate room I would also put a vacuum there.
But that are just dreams, because it isn’t my house
Unless it starts a fire :)…
If it’s inside the house I doubt your neighbors will hear it.but like others have said, it will be loud. Much louder than your printer (at least my printer is almost silent) Your not going to be able to run it at night while your family is trying to sleep. At least not without a lot of added time, effort, space, and cost for soundproofing.
Are you worried about the permanent foot print or the foot print while in use? Some people have been building them to be portable or with fold away storage designs so they can be packed up and use a lot less space when not being used.
If your worried about the dust then you will want a vac because even opening up your enclosure to clean it out every few minutes will let the dust escape and get everywhere.
The max depth you can really cut is about an inch. If you need more z hight to carve on thicker materials there are options such as a drop table.
Please don’t misunderstand my comments. I’ve got nothing against putting the machine in an enclosure. My home-built prusa clone 3d printer is in a lack-based enclosure on the same bench as my Burly model MPCNC. I’m “thought experimenting” myself about a new table/enclosure for my Burly that will allow me to expand it back to my originally desired size - I trimmed it down a bit to fit on the existing bench. I’m lucky enough to have a pretty good dust collection setup in my shop, so that’s factoring in to my enclosure planning.
Noise abatement is absolutely possible with good absorption material choices and things like weatherstripping on doors/openings and double-glazing windows. My shop is already home to noisy stuff (router table, bandsaw, tablesaw), so I wear good hearing protectors and noise reduction isn’t high on my personal needs list.
I already had a fire extinguisher from when I got the laser. It’s mounted on the wall with nothing in the way, because if I need it I need it right now. After having seen some of the real-world videos, I will never leave the room while either of these machines is running. I pause either machine if I need to leave for even one minute to take a call or use the bathroom. No job I’d be running is worth the very real risk of fire and the terrifying speed at which it happens on these machines. I have no such qualms about leaving the 3D printer running unattended overnight thanks to thermal runaway protections that I’ve personally tested.
I also acknowledge that everyone has their own tolerance for these sorts of risks and makes their own choices.