DATA TABLE - Max Flow Rate - various hotends & extruder combos (data/specs etc)

DougJoseph · November 5, 2022, 5:10am

THE DATA TABLE

(Fellow forum members: I seek your help with filling in blanks and adding additional devices & info.)

Device (Printer / Hotend / Extruder / Combo)	Normal Print Speed	Normal Flow Rate	Max Print Speed	Max Flow Rate
Nova Hotend (with what extruder?)	-	-	750 mm/s	60 mm³/s
E3D Volcano Hotend (with what extruder?)	-	-	375 mm/s	30 mm³/s
E3D V6 Hotend (with what extruder?)	-	-	188 mm/s	15 mm³/s
E3D Titan Aero Hotend & Extruder Combo	-	-	188 mm/s	15 mm³/s
BIQU H2 hotend & extruder combo	-	-	125 mm/s	10 mm³/s
BIQU B1 printer (stock hotend & extruder)	60 mm/s	4.75 mm³/s	120 mm/s	9.6 mm³/s
Micro Swiss Direct Drive Extruder (& hotend combo) for Creality CR-10 / Ender 3 Printers	?	?	?	?

*source for quoted spec on E3D Volcano…
*source for quoted spec on E3D V6…
*logic for stats on E3D Titan is that it is a remix of the V6 hotend.

I’m just gathering information both for myself and others.

In my considerations/preparations for building a CoreXY printer, which is quite likely to be one of the latest MP3DP designs by V1…

I have been researching what extruder and hotend to get (or to use from my stash). I’m seeing how the Max Flow Rate of a hotend (in mm³/s) can be compared to the Flow Rate (FR) of one’s desired printing plan, using the printing formula below:

FR = Nozzle size (mm) x layer height (mm) x print speed (mm/s) = mm³/s.

I am also attempting to document what is the Max Flow Rate (MFR) of various hotends I either possess or have some interest in.

Speaking of which, there is a fabulous calculator tool at 3dpassion.com/nova that instantly feeds back the correlation between nozzle diameter, layer height, flow rate (mm³/s), filament diameter, extruder speed, and printing speed (mm/s).

Nova calculator screen shot:

BIQU B1

I own several BIQU B1’s. I searched for a published MFR for its stock hotend / extruder combo, but did not find it. However, I found the following published info:

BIQU B1 Printer, stock config:
Max operating speed	120mm/s
Max Printing Speed	120mm/s
Normal Printing Speed	60mm/s

Then, by use of the Nova calculator, I deduced a decently reasonable estimate of the Normal Flow Rate and Max Flow Rate of a BIQU B1 printer based on its printing speeds — assuming 0.4mm nozzle and 0.2mm layer height. See data table above.

BIQU H2

Also, quite some time back I bought a BIQU H2 extruder/hotend combo. I was curious to see how much better, if any, its MFR is compared to the B1. Generally, I’ve been very impressed with the B1’s and I have been able to push fairly substantial amounts of filament through their stock heads and boosted print speeds. Still, for the then-pricey purchase of the H2 (~$100 then, currently on sale ~$64 or so, for the whole “pre Black Friday” whatever) I had the “impression” the MFR of the H2 would be better. Based on my research, apparently not by much. I found a published “Extrusion Volume” for the H2 of “600mm/min” — BUT NOTE: that’s per minute, not per second! That works out to only 10 mm³/s — either right at, or barely above, the MFR of 9.6 mm³/s of the stock B1! See data table above for comparison.

Ender 3 (V2/Pro) — and related Micro Swiss combo

I have a Micro Swiss direct drive extruder hotend combo, which is a “drop-in” replacement for an Ender 3 stock setup. I cannot find published specs, but my sense is: 1) it is better than the stock Creality setup, 2) I could not say how much better. I say all this as I used it to replace the stock Creality stuff on an Ender 3 v2.

On this site here, is the following quoted reference to Creality’s monstrously dubious claim of a max print speed of 200 mm/s for the Ender 3 (V2/Pro). I would have to agree that it’s more likely max travel speed, not max print speed. If it was actually max print speed, it would mean the Ender 3 (V2/Pro) extruder and hotend are capable of a Max Flow Rate of 16 mm³/s! That’s ridiculous. I’m not buying it.

“The maximum print speed for the Ender 3s is 200 mm/s, according to the manufacturer. However, that’s much faster than most users would be able to run it. In fact, this is usually the speed of a travel move rather than a print move.”

Anyone have other info to add?

DougJoseph · November 5, 2022, 5:37am

And according to a post by Mathematical_Potato here:

·1 yr. ago·edited 1 yr. ago

VS.110 | V0.525

If your stock Creality extruder is holding you back I’d highly recommend a BMG clone from TriangeLab.

Anyways, with a good extruder and the only limiting factor being the hotend you could expect to get around:

~10-12mm3/s for a V6

~14-16mm3/s for a SF Dragon, DragonFly and a little bit higher on a SF Mosquito

~20-30mm3/s for a HF Dragon or Mosquito

~30-40mm3/s for a Volcano or Nova

~80-90mm3/s for a Mosquito Magnum+ (Slice claims around 90mm3/s on ABS but they did their testing at 300°C)

~110mm3/s for the SuperVolcano (E3D claims 11x the standard V6 but I’ve never seen anyone push it that far)

No one has done a real comparison of every hotend and what they’re actually capable of for max flowrates so take these values all with a grain of salt. It would be really interesting to see a database of each hotend at different temperatures and using different filaments, seems like something CNCKitchen would tackle but it would probably end up pretty similar to the values above.

The speed benchy runs gave a fairly good picture of what can be expected of the SF/HF variants and Volcano/Nova. It can vary a lot depending on what filament, temperature, and nozzle size you run at. Using 0.4mm nozzle at 0.2mm layer height and <150mm/s print speeds you should be fine with either a V6 or any of the SF variants. The HF variants should be able to push upwards of 300mm/s on a 0.4mm nozzle at 0.2mm layer height.

Everything else (Supervolcano and Mosquito Magnum+) is completely overkill for a homegamer IMO. Unless you really want to play with huge nozzles (like 1mm+) you don’t need anything higher flow than the Volcano. Even if you do want to use huge nozzles you’re gonna run into massive cooling issues if you run at the max of any of the really high flow models. Using a 1.2mm nozzle at 0.6mm layer height and 120mm/s would be 86mm3/s. That’s way faster than you should be printing on a nozzle that size unless you have a HUGE printer, you’re not going to be able to cool fast enough.

Personally I’d avoid both really high flow hotends. The SuperVolcano heatbreak will bend/break in the lightest of breezes. This means you can’t run at high speeds/accelerations as just the momentum of the heater block can bend/break the heatbreak. The Mosquito Magnum+ shouldn’t be used in any printer with a plastic mount or V-Wheels according to Slice, this removes pretty much every non-industrial printer from the compatibility list. On top of that the dual heater cartridges of the Mosquito Magnum+ make it a lot less safe to wire and run, again especially for homegamers.