Hi, i’ve been troubleshooting my LR3 the last couple of days. I have had it for a while now and it used to function nicely. It had to be stored a way for a little and it moved to a new shop. It is a full sheet build. I recently surfaced the table and moving the cnc over it is completely flat.
Troubleshooting already done:
flat table / surfaced
tightened all? screws and grub screws also with loctite.
core was a bit loose so i tightened that.
tightened all the belts
squared the machine
increased the stepper current from 900 to 1400 for the z, made the steppers a little too hot for my iking so i decreased the current to 1100.
z screw is lubed and doesn’t seem to bind anywhere, however, depending on the position of the core on the x axis the beam does not always drop when turning the machine off.
I’m starting to get frustrated by this problem, mostly since it used to work really well. I used to be able to cut through solid white oak with a 6mm bit at 5mm doc and 1500mm/s no problem. But now it is strugling with soft poplar plywood… any help is welcome!
oh before i forget, moving it with no load it is very accurate in all directions. When cutting parts the tend to be 1mm oversized or undersized so 120mm part comes out 121 or 120.5
I was viewing my gcode in ncviewer to check, i couldn’t find any reason for the error. This is the first section of gcode of this job. Is there a clear mistake that im looking over?
;Fusion 360 CAM 2.0.17954
; Posts processor: MPCNC.cps
; Gcode generated: Tuesday, December 26, 2023 8:58:14 AM GMT
; Document: TEARDROP v16
; Setup: Setup3
;
; Ranges Table:
; X: Min=-1 Max=1038.5 Size=1039.5
; Y: Min=-1 Max=2138.36 Size=2139.36
; Z: Min=-8 Max=15 Size=23
;
; Tools Table:
; T1 D=6 CR=0 - ZMIN=-4.5 - flat end mill
; T2 D=4 CR=0 - ZMIN=-8 - flat end mill
;
; Feedrate and Scaling Properties:
; Feed: Travel speed X/Y = 2000
; Feed: Travel Speed Z = 300
; Feed: Enforce Feedrate = true
; Feed: Scale Feedrate = false
; Feed: Max XY Cut Speed = 1500
; Feed: Max Z Cut Speed = 300
; Feed: Max Toolpath Speed = 1500
;
; G1->G0 Mapping Properties:
; Map: First G1 -> G0 Rapid = false
; Map: G1s -> G0 Rapids = false
; Map: SafeZ Mode = Retract : default = 15
; Map: Allow Rapid Z = false
;
; *** START begin ***
; Set Absolute Positioning
; Units = mm
; Disable stepper timeout
; Set current position to 0,0,0
G90
G21
M84 S0
G92 X0 Y0 Z0
; COMMAND_TOOL_MEASURE
; Probe to Zero Z
; Ask User to Attach the Z Probe
; Do Probing
; Set Z to probe thickness: Z0.5
; Retract the tool to 10
; Ask User to Remove the Z Probe
M0 Attach ZProbe
G38.3 F60 Z-200
G92 Z0.5
G0 Z10 F300
M400
M0 Detach ZProbe
; *** START end ***
;
; *** SECTION begin ***
; X Min: 48 - X Max: 1038.5
; Y Min: 1624.16 - Y Max: 2138.36
; Z Min: -5 - Z Max: 15
; 2D Pocket1 - Milling - Tool: 2 - flat end mill
; COMMAND_START_SPINDLE
; COMMAND_SPINDLE_CLOCKWISE
; >>> Spindle Speed: Manual
M0 Turn ON 5000RPM
; COMMAND_COOLANT_ON
; >>> WARNING: No matching Coolant channel : Flood requested
M117 2D Pocket1
G0 Z15 F300
G0 X471.93 Y2129.154 F2000
G0 Z5 F300
; MOVEMENT_PLUNGE
G1 Z2.5 F333
; MOVEMENT_RAMP_HELIX
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G1 X473.301 Y2128.644 Z-0.366 F333
G1 X473.209 Y2128.725 Z-0.37 F333
G1 X473.111 Y2128.8 Z-0.374 F333
G1 X473.008 Y2128.868 Z-0.379 F333
G1 X472.902 Y2128.93 Z-0.383 F333
G1 X472.791 Y2128.985 Z-0.387 F333
G1 X472.678 Y2129.032 Z-0.392 F333
G1 X472.561 Y2129.072 Z-0.396 F333
G1 X472.442 Y2129.104 Z-0.4 F333
G1 X472.321 Y2129.129 Z-0.404 F333
G1 X472.199 Y2129.145 Z-0.409 F333
G1 X472.076 Y2129.154 Z-0.413 F333
G1 X471.953 Z-0.417 F333
G1 X471.83 Y2129.147 Z-0.422 F333
G1 X471.708 Y2129.132 Z-0.426 F333
G1 X471.587 Y2129.108 Z-0.43 F333
G1 X471.468 Y2129.077 Z-0.435 F333
G1 X471.351 Y2129.039 Z-0.439 F333
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G1 X471.125 Y2128.939 Z-0.448 F333
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G1 X470.915 Y2128.811 Z-0.456 F333
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G1 X470.723 Y2128.657 Z-0.465 F333
G1 X470.635 Y2128.571 Z-0.469 F333
G1 X470.552 Y2128.48 Z-0.473 F333
G1 X470.476 Y2128.383 Z-0.478 F333
G1 X470.406 Y2128.281 Z-0.482 F333
G1 X470.343 Y2128.176 Z-0.486 F333
G1 X470.287 Y2128.066 Z-0.491 F333
G1 X470.238 Y2127.953 Z-0.495 F333
G1 X470.196 Y2127.837 Z-0.499 F333
G1 X470.162 Y2127.718 Z-0.503 F333
G1 X470.136 Y2127.598 Z-0.508 F333
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G1 X470.105 Y2127.23 Z-0.521 F333
G1 X470.111 Y2127.107 Z-0.525 F333
G1 X470.124 Y2126.985 Z-0.529 F333
G1 X470.146 Y2126.863 Z-0.534 F333
G1 X470.175 Y2126.744 Z-0.538 F333
G1 X470.212 Y2126.626 Z-0.542 F333
G1 X470.256 Y2126.511 Z-0.546 F333
G1 X470.308 Y2126.399 Z-0.551 F333
G1 X470.367 Y2126.291 Z-0.555 F333
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G1 X470.506 Y2126.088 Z-0.564 F333
G1 X470.584 Y2125.993 Z-0.568 F333
G1 X470.669 Y2125.903 Z-0.572 F333
G1 X470.76 Y2125.82 Z-0.577 F333
G1 X470.855 Y2125.742 Z-0.581 F333
G1 X470.956 Y2125.671 Z-0.585 F333
G1 X471.061 Y2125.606 Z-0.59 F333
G1 X471.169 Y2125.548 Z-0.594 F333
G1 X471.282 Y2125.498 Z-0.598 F333
G1 X471.397 Y2125.455 Z-0.602 F333
G1 X471.515 Y2125.419 Z-0.607 F333
G1 X471.635 Y2125.391 Z-0.611 F333
G1 X471.757 Y2125.371 Z-0.615 F333
G1 X471.879 Y2125.359 Z-0.62 F333
G1 X472.002 Y2125.355 Z-0.624 F333
G1 X472.126 Y2125.359 Z-0.628 F333
G1 X472.248 Y2125.37 Z-0.633 F333
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G1 X472.49 Y2125.418 Z-0.641 F333
G1 X472.608 Y2125.453 Z-0.645 F333
G1 X472.724 Y2125.496 Z-0.65 F333
G1 X472.836 Y2125.546 Z-0.654 F333
G1 X472.945 Y2125.604 Z-0.658 F333
G1 X473.05 Y2125.668 Z-0.663 F333
G1 X473.151 Y2125.739 Z-0.667 F333
G1 X473.247 Y2125.816 Z-0.671 F333
And these are my post processor settings in fusion, maybe there is a mistake in here? I’m starting to look more at the software side, because i can’t find any clear errors in my build after checking everything that was the problem in some of the other topics related to this issue.
And these are some screenshots of the first toolpath that goes wrong.
This is the build currently
This is where the cut goes wrong, as you can see it goes way deeper then 2.5mm and the bit gets to hot because of that.
And here is a video of it cutting different plywood, it had the issue of cutting to deep a little less but it was still present, the core was slightly loose during this cut which caused some dimensions to be slightly of, tightning it solved this issue.
video of test cut
vicious1
December 26, 2023, 4:28pm
5
Looking at your gcode you did not show enough to know for sure. Everything looks good but you stopped while it was still plunging.
Is your CAM set to the work surface is =0 or is your table=0? You have probed the surface fine, I suspect you are using the table as a reference and not the work surface.
Unfortunately, fusion is hard to trouble shoot with all those lists of setting and the ones that I am asking about are not represented in those lists. I highly recommend learning with ESTlcam.
vicious1
December 26, 2023, 4:31pm
6
And that depth of cut should be fine, I think your RPM might be way too high. Hard to say, that video shows your federate to be really fast, but it also sounds like your RPM is really high.
I couldnt’t put more gcode in, but z went down to -2.5 and then started cutting. It could be that i set the stock to 0 but i dont think so since the material is 18mm thick so it would have to cut way deeper. I have done around 50 jobs with fusion without many issues so i dont plan to switch to estlecam.
I agree that the rpm was too high, now that you mention it i remember why i did. The cutting went decently well in i think the y direction at lower rpm. But in x direction it had difficulty at lower rpm so i increased it. Does this have to do with my issue?
vicious1
December 26, 2023, 10:42pm
8
No.
It is just significantly harder to help you solve issues like this. You are going to have to dig around. This does not seem like a hardware issue at all so it is most likely a CAM setting.
-2.5 in the gcode or from your table top?
i understand, i’ll give estlecam another shot.
in the gcode. Box stock point is set to the top of the work surface and probing is also done on top of work surface. So the -2.5 in the gcode should be 2.5mm below the top surface of the stock.
at the start of the gcode document this is stated:
what does the ZMIN=-4.5 mean? if i remember correctly the cut was 7mm deep instead of 2.5 so maybe this can be part of the cause?
vicious1
December 27, 2023, 4:35pm
10
vSeccelen:
should be
Look at the gcode you generated. Look at the Z coordinates. Does it stop at z-2.5? At the first operation or not? If it keeps going it is a cam issue 100%, if it all stops at z-2.5 then we look elsewhere.
I don’t know what that is at all, I do not use fusion cam enough.
Yes it stopped at -2.5 before the first opperation. I exported my sketch to estlecam to give it a try. I’m happy i did, for 2.5d it is really easy to use and hard to make mistakes.
I also forgot to check one simple thing, if my material was flat. I normaly work with solid hardwoods that dont have much if any surface tension in the material. I know used full sheet multiplex which i assumed to be perfectly flat… but it bulged upwards in the middle of the sheet. It gave a difference of 6mm… so i think that was my problem. I did not have time to cnc the sheet but i think this was my problem, combined with the loose core and some other slight changes i had too make.
I’ll update tomorrow with the final conclusion if it is finished
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Bartman
December 27, 2023, 7:18pm
12
I’m taking a guess here, but that probably refers to the lowest that the Z axis goes in the entire gcode file. That section is I believe an overview or summary of the entire file. So if I had to guess, I would think that Tool #1 has a maximum depth (Z Min) of -4.5 mm, and Tool #2 has a maximum depth of -8mm during the entire toolpath.
Perhaps you have set up a rough pass of 4.5 using Tool #1 , and a finish pass of 8 using Tool #2 ?
Note also that you have Stepdown at 2.5, but that isn’t Depth of Cut (DOC). In other words, the gcode should take multiple passes at a maximum of 2.5 until it reaches the final DOC. Without seeing the entire gcode and all of the settings screens, it is hard to know whether this is indeed how it has been configured and if the CAM is outputting this properly
If it is cutting at 6mm on the initial pass instead of 2.5 mm (which is what you seem to be saying in your OP), then it seems to me (off the top of my head) there are two possibilities:
The Z axis is moving 6 mm instead of 2.5 mm on the initial pass. If it moves 2.5mm on a manual command of 2.5 mm, then the problem is probably in your gcode (try another CAM program, or double check your programming entries). If it moves 6 mm on a 2.5 mm manual command, then something is seriously messed up in your machine.
The Z axis is moving 2.5 mm on the initial pass, but for some reason the bit is moving 6 mm. This could indicate things like loose collet (bit slipping and pulling out of the collet), cracked core, loose core rollers, loose grub screws, skipping steps (in the upward direction?), loose router mounting, or some other mechanical issue.
Third possibility, which I see you have identified, is that the material is not flat, so it cuts 2.5 mm in some places but 6 mm in others. Try screwing the material to the spoil board at the high spots in case it is bowed rather than uneven thickness (make sure the screws aren’t in the toolpath)
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The issue in the end was a very warped sheet of plywood… sometimes you forget to check the simple things.
I did also have an issue with my bits getting way too hot very fast and thus becoming dull. I have always used a 2 flute upcut bit so far. These don’t work for poplar plywood at all. even at low rpm it could not get rit of its heat, i used brand new hss bits. I think this is mostly since poplar ply is very lightweight. Thus it is harder for the bit to get rid of heat? The upcut also splintered a ton.
So i tried a straight cut bit, worked like a treat. Could use much lower rpm and it did not get hot. I used a two flute bit but i assume one flut would be even better. you can see the difference in the image below. The deviation in z is not because the router is not tram. The bit i used dents inwards on the bottem which leaves the little marks on the bottom.
The first section of my project cut out below. First part of many. Used an 6mm 2 flute straight cut bit. 5mm doc. 8mm/s in xy and 3mm/s in z. speed dial 3.5 on the katsu router. took 1 hour 40 minutes to machine, speeds could have been higher but this worked well.
edit: also to anyone who is as stubborn as me and didn’t give estlecam a fair shot. Do try it, estlecam v12 is an amazingly easy to use cam software that saves a lot of time and headaches if you tend to only do 2d and 2.5d cutting. I don’t know how (and if?) 3d milling is possible in estlecam.
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vicious1
January 3, 2024, 12:13am
14
A single flute upcut is going to fly. Mine last a long time even in MDF. Never overheated one.
thanks for the help!
