Carving long(60cm) round solid wooden bar(60-70mm dia) out of 4 x 4 timber

So I want to make do a project which is going to require round solid wooden bar (like a straight table leg or a wood handrail) and I was looking into this rotary axis however I am going to have to carve this out of square shaped wood and I was just wondering what would be the easiest way for me to achieve this?

I seen the video of the creator of the rotary axis carving/engraving into a round cylinder wood object but not a square shaped 4 x 4 timber, Would the machine with even withstand the corners of the 4 x 4 timber as they turn to be cut?

Also in the g code generators for the rotary axis like g code ripper they assume you are working with a cylindrical object and not a square shaped object. Is there anyway to tell fusion or any other g code generator that I’m starting with a block of 4 x 4 on the rotary axis and want it to carve round Bar?

How round does it need to be, how long in a single piece and how many are you planning to make? I’ve made 30mm dowels before using a 13mm/1/2" roundover bit so that’s always at least somewhat of an option. If you’ve got a 1/2" router then a 25mm or 32mm roundover bit could work, along with some sanding. In my case it started out very slightly out of round if you looked closely but with some sanding it feels perfectly round unless you’re spinning it in your hand.

I sanded those dowels by putting a screw in the center of each end through a couple of pieces of scrap and then spinning the dowel with a hand drill while attacking it with a palm sander.

You could potentially rig something similar by making some L-shaped brackets out of scrap and clamping them down. You could even go so far as to make router holder and just route them circular like that, that’s what I did for a dome-making jig that I made a while ago.

It looks like 32mm roundover bits can be had quite cheaply so honestly that’s probably the most straightforward option if you’ve got or can borrow/hire/steal a 1/2" router.

There’s also the possibility of making something like this if you’re super keen:

That’s almost exactly what I had envisaged, except with it being a bit more open at the start so it would accept wider stock, and with a pre-existing dowel or 3D printed part to feed the thing through. Could still do the half-assed lathe approach to stabilize the far end of the square stock to keep it straight in the jig etc.

Neither of those options are really an answer about a rotary axis, sorry, they’re just some random musings about how I’ve approached that in the past without access to one or the space to buy a wood lathe.

Edit: To be more specific about the rotary axis, if you were wanting to install one then I think the only real issue would be the working height of the CNC machine. There’s only 100mm of travel, of which some of that ends up being occluded by the tool so you’d need a drop table or to pack the rails up. That’s no big issue, I’d probably just try to mount it such that the lowest point on the CNC router would be in line or a bit above the axis of the rotary unit. That’d give you plenty of space to work with. As for the power, the machine could easily do it in multiple passes, similar to how a lathe would work. You’d do a bunch of passes with the bit lowering slightly each time, similar to how stock would be rounded off in a conventional lathe. Each cut could be relatively light and would start just taking the tops off the corners and the progress to fully rounding the material.

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How round does it need to be, how long in a single piece and how many are you planning to make?

as circular as possible, I plan on them being 30 - 60 cm long a piece. Yes I’m going to be putting my hand on it.

I’ve made 30mm dowels before using a 13mm/1/2" roundover bit

Im wanting to make them 60cm in diameter or maybe more, and hopefully if it goes well then make a lot of them.

As for the power, the machine could easily do it in multiple passes

Ok thanks. I just haven’t seen anyone doing it on any of the MPCNC or lowrider machines as they all use cylindrical shaped bar on their videos.

60cm or 60mm? At 60cm you’re gonna have some fun times.

For 60mm there are 30mm roundover bits available that work work for that. Precision Bits has them up to 1.5"/38mm which would give you a 76mm diameter dowel or even ~80mm with some sanding.

If I wanted to make a 60mm dowel, my approach would be:
1/2" router with 30mm roundover
Cut stock to 60mm x 60mm
Router plate with a piece of scrap as a fence
Cut all 3 roundovers leaving ~30mm of uncut end.
Clamp the piece to the side of a workbench by the uncut ends to use the workbench as the refence for the last roundover.

You can do the same thing with a DIY router table setup pretty easily, too.

The nice thing about that is that it’s under hand pressure and following a guide bearing so no issues with deflection etc. It’ll also be sooooo much faster than a CNC approach.

The less nice thing is that you need to rip the stock down somewhat accurately to start with. That’s about the one thing that I think the rotary axis would do a better job of.

Anyway, just some random thoughts. Good luck and post photos :slight_smile:

Hey, thank you so much for the advice btw. I haven’t actually even got a router on my machine yet. But just thinking ahead for what I actually want to make with it.

If I wanted to make a 60mm dowel, my approach would be:
1/2" router with 30mm roundover

Yeah so because I don’t have a router in my machine yet I’m not exactly sure if a 1/4 router is the same as 1/2. I’m going to get the makita 700 series from amazon which is 1/4. Or do you mean the bit

Router plate with a piece of scrap as a fence
Cut all 3 roundovers leaving ~30mm of uncut end.
Clamp the piece to the side of a workbench by the uncut ends to use the workbench as the refence for the last roundover.

I find it hard to exactly visualize what you are saying because I’m really new to CNC machines, But I’m sure you mean something like round the edges of the square stock material then flip it over and do the other sides edges? When you say router plate do you mean screwing the material to the table? But then you say to cut three roundovers, when there’s only 2 edges on one side so.

Great thanks! I will definitely look into the roundover bits, it’ll be so much easier than trying to setup a 4th axis.

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All good! The main difference between a 1/4" palm/trim router like we use here and a bigger 1/2" plunge or fixed base router is the size and power. That size is referring to the largest shank of bit that it can take. Bigger bits with large profiles tend to only come in 1/2" shank because they need the strength of that shank as well as needing the torque of the much bigger router. My limited understanding is that in the past most woodworking routers were larger 1/2" versions while 1/4" trim routers were used for lighter duty things like mild roundovers and flush trimming cuts on the job site, etc.

The routers we use for CNC machines are pretty much always 1/4" shank palm/trim routers like the Makita RT0700 series you’re talking about. They have tons of power for what we need because the hobbiest CNC platforms aren’t rigid enough to apply much more force than you can do by hand. As a result, we tend to take lighter cuts with simpler bits and move faster. So you might cut out a shape in 19mm plywood by making 6 passes at 4mm depth of cut each pass while by hand you might move slower and do it in 2 passes because more is annoying, or if you’re using a 1/2" router you’d hog it all out in one go but your router would be 4x the size and twice the price, etc.

I have the Makita RT0700 series router in my MPCNC and the 18V brushless version as my general ‘everything else’ handheld router. I also have a much larger Hikoki 1/2" router that I’ve used for some bigger bits, mainly either very large roundover bits as mentioned before or flattening slabs using a sled with a 2" diameter surfacing bit.

The great thing about the 1/2" router in that case is that it has tons of power and you can remove a ton of material quickly because the bits are really strong. The downside is that it’s expensive and very heavy.

So, if you don’t have a router yet and aren’t looking to tool up with a variety of hand/power tools of limited utility then you can safely ignore most of my suggestions about roundover bits. To do a 60mm dowel you’d need a 30mm roundover bit which is a bit large for a 1/4" shank, so you’d need a 1/2" router etc. etc. and it all gets a bit much for a single task.

I think that’s because I’m explaining myself very poorly and without enough context. I’m giving a non-CNC option that is potentially easier than building out a machine with a rotary axis. I should have made that much more clear. If you follow that Stumpy Nubs video that I linked, that’s basically what I did but using the router hand-held, rather than using it in a router table.

The thing with the CNC options is that they’re great once they’re going, but in my experience they’re vastly, vastly more work to get there. If your goal is to have a hobby of building CNC machines then go nuts, it’s great fun! If your goal is to just make a single dowel because you need it for another project then holy cow is doing it on a CNC machine the hardest way you could approach it! If you think you’d also use it to make rails for a staircase, decorative table legs etc. or features that are hard to do by hand then it’s back to potentially being a great thing for a rotary axis, etc. If you were thinking about doing it commercially then maybe it’s a mix, if custom work then CNC, if needing to make bulk parts out quickly then probably not CNC, etc. It’s all about matching the tools and process to the goals at hand!

Mostly I was hoping that someone else with 4th axis experience might dive in here and give a counterpoint because I don’t know anything about them aside from having used them once or twice on a university laser engraver. I think the software tools for them get a little odd or expensive, too, but for something like making a dowel you could program the entire thing by hand quite easily, I think.

For roundovers that size you’ll definitely be in the range of things that need a 1/2" shank, so you’d need a bigger router than you’d buy for CNC uses. If you’ve got a local makerspace or friendly woodworker you may be able to borrow one, or they might come up 2nd hand. Definitely have a watch of that video I linked, it should give you the general rough idea of how I was approaching doing it by hand. The thing is that it’s pretty much just rounding over 4 corners of a piece of stock the right size. The first 3 corners are easy because you’ve got a flat surface to rest on the router base on and follow along the edge with the bearing. The last corner is the tricky one because you’re cutting away the last of the flat surface as you go. It’s possible, just tricky. Having the router in a table is one way to approach that. Using something like another piece the same thickness to ‘extend’ your surface is another way of doing it. Leaving the squares on the ends gives you a nice way to reference everything and make sure stuff lines up.

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I wouldn’t try to turn a 4x4 into a rod on a cnc. I can see things going badly many ways, not many ways to make it go right.

Find someone with a lathe to turn it first and then use he rotary for the carving.

I don’t know where you are but google “makerspace near me” and “wood turners club near me”. Both of those places will be FILLED with people who like to do the job and like to teach others to do it, will likely either do it for free or will walk you through how to do it yourself.

Or people like me, who are kind of anti-social. I’ll show you how to do it yourself so you won’t bug me in the future :laugh:

What can you see being the issue here? For me the main thing I thought was the complexity of setting up a 4th axis, the toolpath generation could be tricky and then I guess there’s a potential for rigidity issues for longer lengths but 600mm seems doable.

I’d use a table saw to turn the 4x4 into an octagon before trying to mount it on a lathe or other rotary machine.

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I wouldn’t try to turn a 4x4 into a rod on a cnc

Ok, I kind of thought so. I’m going to do what Jono said about putting it through a table router with a roundover bit as I’m only wanting it straight anyway between say 50 - 70mm in diameter (I haven’t decided yet) and not looking to do anything fancy with a rotary axis yet :joy:.

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A light weight cnc machine isn’t really designed for the amount of vertical shock you would get by turning it relatively quickly. And the amount of time needed to turn it slowly would be substantial.

Or 2-3 minutes to round it on a lathe and then be able to carve.

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Who said anything about vertical shock??

A 4th axis isn’t a lathe, it’s live tooling on rotating stock. The spindle will be doing the cutting and the 4th axis would be slowly rotating the stock.

This might be a ‘every problem looks like a nail’ thing.

A one off, that length, is the job for a hand plane and calipers.

Knock the corners off to make the square an octagon then knock the corners off again to make a … hexadagon… maybe?

If you want o cnc something make a big pair of calipers to check your diameter along the length

I have this setup to engrave with a rotary axis I’m making pieces that are roughly 70x80mm but only 19mm “long” (thick)

I have set up my primo mpcnc with a rotary axis. I use the last driver on the Jackpot board for a simple belt driven “plate”. I don’t use a chuck.

I can jog all 4 axes at any time, but I don’t have software that is truly 4 axis. I use V-carve pro for rotary work. I position my X at the axis of rotation and then the V-carve rotary job moves A,Y,Z.

It’s set up to make edge design on small pucks that bolt onto the rotating plate. I first cut blanks with a flat XY job. Then I mount my “ hockey puck” onto the plate for rotation cuts of the edge shape and engraving This works well for hardwood.

If I want to work in a larger diameter size range I can pivot the whole rotary drive lower. At some point I would probably have issues with the stepper not holding against the greater leverage with a larger radius but I haven’t tried that.

Vcarve has “wrapping “ for spirals and fluting. Think of the old craftsman router crafter and it can do all that.

It can also import a.stp file and make roughing and detail cuts on objects based on cylindrical coordinates. Most chess pieces look like lathe work except the knight. It can carve them all.

Thirdly you can use engraving or texture toolpaths and apply them onto the 3d model.

BTW I don’t have to make any physical changes to the machine to go from XYZ jobs to AYZ
I have a different post processor for each of course. All my gcode file names start with F for flat or R for rotary.

For rotary I use my touch plate on the edge of the round plate and account for the radius. Rotary jobs work best if Z Zero is the axis.

Thinking through the options is half the fun. I hope seeing my take on rotary helps.

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That‘s a really smart idea. I thought about doing it and have a stepper and a motor lying here, but that idea with different pps didn‘t cross my mind yet. :slight_smile: