There is absolutely no place for white fragility and white silence.
Anyone here actually say āRacism is OK by meā? So far, I think everyone has said that racism pretty much sucks, or has taken a stand to not discuss it here.
Waitā¦ Hold onā¦ Let me get that for youā¦ "Silence is Violence"
Right. Shame people into espousing your viewpoint in every venue. Thatās a surefire way to win friends and influence people. In the proper context, itās absolutely correct. If you see racial abuse (or any sort of abuse) and are silent about it, youāre complicit. But everyone does not need to be shouting from the rooftops at all times, if thatās not what they are comfortable with. There are plenty of people who are comfortable with doing that, and they will.
I really do appreciate your beliefs, and your fervor, but letās ratchet things back a notch or two.
And yes, I fully realize that Iām speaking from a place of older, white, heterosexual, genetic male privilege. Also know that if I didnāt have underlying health conditions, and if my daughter wasnāt immuno-compromised, Iād probably be out protesting most evenings. But COVID has us bottled up pretty tightly. (Yes, again I realize that Iām not willing to risk my life to protest for the lives of people who risk their lives every day just for the color of their skin.)
Itās a crappy world we live in. When we turn on the news, the crap gets fire-hosed into our psyche. When the politicians talk, theyāre crapping on our brains. It really sucks out there. So some of us like to turn to our small refuges from that shitshow, and try to spend a little time working on things we can control. Wanting to get away from it in this space is not the same as ignoring it, or condoning the status quo. Itās a form of escapism.
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Listen. I am (like most people) trying to figure out what the right thing to do here is. I agree with you that this isnāt right vs left, or USA vs. China. This is basic human rights against bigotry. But what Iām suggesting is, the people here are intelligent, capable of listening, and compassionate people. Donāt offend someone for the sake of offending them.
You are coming in here guns ablazinā and I think you have some good points, but donāt ruin that by making an enemy out of every one of us.
Iām collecting some thoughts on the subject. Let me see if I can find a way to present this where we can work together and not apart. Just take some time before saying something youāll regret.
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Never stopped me beforeā¦ 
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K, thatās not really helpful here.
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My intent wasnāt not to villainize the wrong people. The hateful comments still ring in my ears though from the FB group. Iām trying to somehow bring attention to this matter and I believe that the right thing to do is to make a stance by the founder of the community. I personally wouldnāt want to be clumped into the same group which is made up by a large number of people who are blatantly racists, nor would I want their business.
In light of the previous responses equating silence with tacit approval or fragility, I must respectfully disagree with the above quoted statement. I realize you are speaking metaphorically, but you are espousing violence. I believe that violence inherent in the disparity of power (at its root a political issue) is what has led to the current outrages. I urge you not to adopt the methods which have led to the wrongs you seek to redress.
Anyone who believes racism (or virtually any other āismā you choose) is OK should be engaged, respectfully, and shown that an affront to any labelled group is an affront to all humanity. If they are unwilling or unable to expand their compassion to that extent, then they get no more of my time or energy.
Absolutely my last post on this topic.
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You villainized Ryan by making everything public.
You should have gone to him privately and asked for explanation as to why you were banned.
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I agree. The jumped on part was a response to an earlier reply āAnd like most people, you immediately jumped on someone that doesnāt think the same as you.ā
The why I got banned is actually pretty clear to me - the admins deemed it not relevant to the topic. Thatās not the problem. The people on the group are the problem. Ryan needs to set a precedent here. Itās true. I shouldāve gone straight to him, personally. I did, and I felt like he shrugged me off.
Yet you have. You are demanding I respond to you. You have called me names on twitter. You have made incorrect assumptions about the removal of four people from the FaceBook group.
A private email, DM, or PM with a simple question would have gotten a response. I have even told you this publicly, still you make more public demands of me.
Foul language and demands of me will not be tolerated on any platform I have any sort of control over.
This is a open minded family friendly business. You and all parties involved got removed for the use of foul language. You never actually asked why you four all got removed.
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Not directly, but I find a bit of humor helps ease the tension. Sometimes. For me. 
I just spent some time looking through the FB site, and while it appears the post and itās comments have been removed, I also see that 16 people were dropped from the group by @nellson, I assume all were connected to that one post and related comments one way or another.
Iām also going to put this out there: My son will be a High School senior next year (last year of primary school before university for those unfamiliar with US educational āsystemsā). Like me, he is on the autism spectrum. We have what is commonly known as Aspergerās Syndrome. Weāre not the best at reading social cues or understanding implicit language. So I spend a fair amount of time butting heads with him about the language he uses, because I recognize a lot of it as either misogynistic, homophobic, or racist code, but he just hears it as the slang he hears at school or online. I donāt think heās any of those things (although I am his father, so Iām biased), I just think he doesnāt know any better, and Iām not well enough versed to be able to teach him.
Iāve heard/read too many black/trans/gay/other voices saying āitās not my job to teach youā to even ask for an explanation anymore, but not everyone is there. I donāt know what was said, and by whom, but I would not be surprised if a good amount of what you perceived as racism was just an inability to process and communicate effectively, especially in the turmoil of white guilt. Hell, Iām probably speaking out on the topic more than I should.
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I ask here, publicly, why I got removed? I definitely have not used any foul language at all. That Iām sure about.
Wowā¦ Even I picked up on that cueā¦
Remember that @vicious1 doesnāt moderate the FB group, @nellson doesā¦
edit: ā¦actively moderateā¦
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I was told the situation got out of hand and all parties were removed. I was told there was lots of foul language. My apologies if you did not partake, feel free to make a request and I will reinstate you immediately.
The situation definitely got out of hand. And for me the fact that I got banned really sent the wrong message.
For a third time, Private conversations are appropriate for a situation as heavy as this one. I am not sure why you insist on doing this publicly. Anything I say in private could easily be shared if I said something to offend you.
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Iām not an expert, and I donāt know all the details about BLM. I have spent hours reading articles, posts, watching the news. I am not worried about offending someone who is racist, and I absolutely want something to change for POC. I am willing to do what I can. What has been happening to POC is not right, and Iād like that to change.
I also have my own responsibilities. I have responsibilities to my family, my children, myself, my work (which I consider to be important).
I imagine Ryan is in a similar position. He has his own responsibilities, and he has to support people he cares about (without going into more detail about his personal life).
These forums and the website are about the v1 machines. I read twitter, nytimes, and I watch last week tonight if I want to know about world news. They do a much better job at it than my uninformed CNC friends do. So please forgive us for not talking about the world outside of our garages. We have other outlets for that.
This is a moment in time where things feel very important, and the truth is, they have been important for decades. It is perfectly reasonable for you to ask for condemnation of racism from Ryan at these times. Iām sure heās already thought about it, but wasnāt sure how to do it. I think youād probably get there faster by being nice about it, and pointing it out in private.
If I saw Ryan post in support of BLM, I would be very happy. I donāt think he is worried about offending racists or sympathizers. The two big risks with making a statement like that are (as I see them): They invite people to share world news here (including aggravating perspectives), and this is a place separate from world events. It may seem disingenuous.
Regarding your personal work. I would have loved to see that project, and I would have defended it. I donāt use bookface anymore, so I canāt say who is there. I can easily imagine it getting out of hand, and the devil is in the details. If there were more positive voices in the group, then I would have liked to see someone step in with a cool head and provide better perspective.
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I was asked what to do and I said remove them all. I did 100% ask to have everyone removed, without actually reading the thread.
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