I was 100% against having a patreon for a long time. I am warming up to it and not sure how I will be using it really. I have the “special” patreon only logo knob. It would be cool to do some more things like that. Maybe some board cases slathered in logo’s or something. Have to figure out what I have time for as well. I do not want to dedicate to much time outside of the usual.
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…And with you the patreon supporter count has tripled this month 
nice, thanks!
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Signed up yesterday
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Thank you!
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I really do appreciate it.
Just know anyone that frequents the forums is more valuable to me. Does that make sense. Again, I love it, but with all the time you spend in here is surely more than enough.
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I would pay a “reasonable” premium for the LR3 STL parts. Just know that the more it costs the less people will buy in. $5 to $30 is in most people budgets. Not sure if that messes up a license if it costs? Maybe owning the plans could also be a users in to the forums?
Took me a few tries but I now own a Correctly constructed version of your LR2. Even though it runs I can not figure out how to keep it from hurting itself. I would pay a “reasonable” premium to watch simple videos of best practices of using the machine and maybe troubleshooting (Patreon?). It doesn’t have to be complicated or professional! You don’t even need to talk. Just do what you do to cut a part. Or build a machine from scratch on camera. Example: 3dlabprint.com.
I bet you have many people that would volunteer to do these videos for you. I tried to do a step by step document for you but I wanted to help out vs create problems…
Curious:
If you got “enough” money from this full time job. Would you care if it was open source?
Added comment:
At this point V1 is a brand of CNC’s that people know can work. So newer machines costing shouldn’t be a problem. All the machines currently for free are already in the wild and kind of have to be free. So If someone didn’t want to buy the new LR3 parts. They could still get the LR2 parts. But from the teaser video of the LR3 the design has changed way more than the LR to LR2 did.
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If I was about to build a new machine, I would not be happy to build a previous version. When this all started I was beyond broke and I salvaged all sorts of parts to make this happen and that first janky machine was glorious. I would never want to take that away from a person that is even remotely considering making a CNC. If I have a better design it is easier to support and user satisfaction goes up. The profit typically goes down per kit.
Bills need to get paid but it is not only a money issue. I know Prusa has succeeded, Most OS printer companies do not do the same. One of the only 3D printers I ever paid for was a Amazon clone and it was the worst 3D printing experience of my life. Had I not already had a few years of printing experience, I would have tossed it and never looked back, probably be a pro surfer right now 
. I would rather make less money if it meant saving someone the experience of getting a janky CNC kit.
Most people beat me to any videos needed. I could list them somewhere and do sometimes. videos are not a skill I possess yet, and not sure if I should spend my limited time on learning it or keep up with CAD, Firmware, Electronics, materials, sourcing, and general R&D. As for the help there is absolutely no way me, one guy, could help on Patreon privately better than we do here for free. The forums to me as the most magical part of all this. I love checking in and racing to help solve an issue before someone else does.
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Adding some different Patron tiers or rewards might be one thing to consider. Extra forum badges, access to a ‘members only’ forum section, pre-release access to design files, early-bird (1-3 days) access to kits/accessories when they are added to the store, etc.
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Early bird might be worth it. A week at most.
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I agree!
The whole reason I wanted to make this machine was because I don’t have the money to buy the Ikea doors for my 70% off damaged Kitchen cabinets. I am a Solidworks Designer and thought I could make my own simple cabinet doors.
I have a few bucks per month to throw at a project. When I started the LR2 I had several parts from trying to build my own failed 3d printer. I should have saved up and bought your kit! Jeffeb3 was smart and saw that it was a good deal! But I tend to always take the long road… usually because $$$'s looks way more than $$'s.
I agree again!
I have watched people since 2007 interested in 3d printing always buys those junk 3d printers that they throw away and never look back. Sad 
I was about to give up on owning one but my mom helped me buy a Prusa MK3… I am in my 30’s! It has been an excellent experience! I have no idea how Josef Prusa pulled that company off while everyone has and is cloning everything of his.
I feel like my only hope for having a CNC is going to come from V1 Engineering! I have never been so close to Glorious Victory! I just need to find some time to keep beating it. 
Mad respect to you!
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I can relate. My first 3D printer was a cheap (at the time, I think it was $575) I3 clone kit and it was junk. It was finicky, printed with garbage tolerances when it finished printing at all and needed upgrades that it was barely able to manage, but it did teach me how the machine worked. From that, I was able to rebuild it from the base up, and got a 3D printer that was at least capable of making parts that had a chance of fitting together. I still have some of the garbage spec prints that I made with that first printer, and it sometimes amazes me that I didn’t just walk away…
I bought one other kit (about half the price of the first one) that wasn’t BAD but when the hotend nozzle and heat block failed, it wasn’t possible.to get a good fit replacement and I just stopped using it.
With CNC machines, Ive kicked tires before, but never took the plunge aside from a little failure of a 3018 that broke the first time I tried to cut MDF with it.
The V1 machines satisfied all of my requirements. Materials and components I could source replacements for, affordable cost of entry, and predictable results.
My Primo was sized to be able to do new cabinet doors for my Ikea kitchen cabinets. I have the previous generation, so I could not buy replacement cabinet doors and drawer fronts for the version I have, but I can measure the existing ones, and cut new ones. I did not want to buy a whole new set of cabinets.
Now that job is done, and I have mostly used my Primo for smaller jobs, but I still want to be able to do large ones. Well, that’s what the LowRider is for, so I will be able to make the Primo smaller… when I get around to it.
As to licensing…
The LR2 is a good machine. I can see wanting to forgo it for the LR3 but there is nothing “garbage” about the LR2. making the previous versions free and charging a modest premium for the current version files is reasonable. It is a way yo monetize development and pave the way for future expansion and improvements. It adds some weight to legal claims for people printing and selling unauthorized copies, even if you only charge $5 you can then have a license that they agree to use it for their own use, and not for resale or production. It’s pretty sure that copies will exist “in the wild” after a while, and of course remixes and modifications.
I would be willing to pay for CAD files for some of the remixes that I wanted to do for myself too. Some I can do from the mesh files, of course, and I’ve been happy to. As I get better with the software, it’s become easier to work with, but some I could have done better from step files or Fusion360 source CAD. (TFT35 E3 remix for ESP01S wifi for example. Done now though.) I still want to have a better flattened dxf file to attemt a 2.5D carve though – much trickier than the 12864 LCD case though. Anyway paid access to source CAD is something you can’t do with ipen source. Not that a license agreement means too much, but you can at least get peiple to agree to limit exposure of that source as a condition of purchase.
This becomes something that I think you can do now that you probably couldn’t have done as well before. Your machines have enough good examples put there that people can tryst they will get good files that they can print as advertised and get expected results.
I think it works pretty well for us, too. It adds a monetary incentive for you to improve and develop new machines and parts. I guess so long as it doesn’t discourage support for existing designs, that is, but I don’t see that as much of a worry. I guess it does produce a two-tier membership in the community, which would be sad… Well, nothing is 100% positive.
I know that when I came across the MPCNC I knew I wanted to build it, and I knew that I wanted to support your work.
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I was just digging around for some new music and a coffee fueled thought occurred to me.
The way I feel about my files is kinda like how music works these days. Imagine a file site (Thingiverse Printables) like works like a music site (Spotify, Apple Music, Pandora). I know Prusa is close with the free filament but hear me out.
As a consumer, you get either X amount of free files a month (let’s say $2/mo), or maybe even lower quality files. Not too low but low enough to still be functional but obvious that it is the lower poly version. It is pretty easy to export your files in a lower poly count in all programs, that is only a tiny bit more work for the creator. You can pay for unlimited downloads or better quality, or something. Perhaps even an option to only support your favorite creator for a much smaller monthly fee (let’s say $0.50/mo).
As a site owner, you take a fraction of the monthly fees for monthly expenses. As the paying consumer base grows, the fraction gets smaller. Then share the subscription with whomever that paying user downloads. So if the consumer downloads 1 file that month $1.9992 goes to the creator they downloaded from, if the consumer got 1000 files from a 1000 creators then they all split the pot.
This incentivizes the site own to keep the site running well and secure, and the bills are paid. This rewards creators of high quality files to keep producing. For users this is where all the best files would be because the site runs well, and the creators are being supported.
Still not sure how commercial users would fit in other than a per sale fee, but how do you track that anywhere outside that site? Sales on that site could very easily be shared appropriately. That lets you potentially buy parts very locally for cheaper shipping and faster delivery.
The hitch here is payment gateway fees on small transactions…charge honest fees based of payment method, that would weed out the extensive ones quickly. Discounts for longer subscriptions (less transactions).
Dang who is going to get started building this?
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I know cults3d.com has fee based downloads, but not a flat monthly rate, that concept is interesting.
A good friend of mine is a musician, very talented, and has been at it for decades. His band has a loyal local following and the group sells CD’s in local shops for $10, for which the band gets $5.
The band is on spotify and he told me they need almost 15K downloads to see the same five bucks.
He says real $ doesn’t happen until 1M downloads, which due to the niche of his groups music, just isn’t going to happen.
Once again Ryan, I do not envy you in your attempt (rightly so) to monetize your hard work.
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people have been trying to crack the micropayments nut for a very long time and I’m not sure anyone has quite managed it.
That being said, a dynamic patreon-esque platform would be really interesting to see. You have a monthly (yearly?) commitment and you can designate a ‘default’ mix of support to creators and thenyour actual monthly activity (downloads, one-off ‘tips’, etc.) change the allocation of your monthly amount.
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Micro payments seem like they could very easily handle by any of the payment processing platforms. Under a certain amount, none of the protections and insurances the platform normally extends would apply. So sending your friend $2, or a single candy from the store would be feasible. You would quickly become the payment gateway of choice. You still make your money on larger transactions because you are the gateway of choice and those come with some protections.
All things cost 2.3%+$0.30 more because this is the standard fee to swipe a card.
I just don’t see why a place like Paypal needs to charge so much on every transaction. If it is within their network, how much could it possibly cost to take a dollar from my PP account and put it in your PP account? Something like crypto, Cardano is charging like $0.40, per transaction of any size (no percentages because there are no protection or insurance).
I don’t know it all just seems like there are fees for everything now. It was cool when you could just give someone a dollar, and they got a dollar.
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A skeptic would say they charge that because they can. Prices are where supply meets demand. Part of the benefit of PayPal is the trust from users. Merchants are paying PayPal for that trust, and hoping that ends up with more sales. Google pay, apple and Amazon pay work with the same benefit. I would rather buy something with one of those services because they already have all my information and I have to trust them already. The merchant and I are paying for the ability to do that. That is worth money (even if A+++Bills dot com can do the same thing, they won’t be able to charge the same amount).
Giving PayPal the benefit of the doubt, those fees aren’t for the “sunny day” transactions, where we just move $15 to a friend to pay for half of a tab. Those fees pay for the rainy day problems of fraud, or working with customers who have been wronged (or just think they have). People that solve those problems cost money. And sometimes, the resulting solutions cost money (but PayPal has a lot of policies to remove themselves from the liability when something goes wrong).
The truth is probably somewhere in between. Yes, PayPal has some expenses that aren’t obvious. But really, they are very profitable.
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This software as a service has taken over everything because the business model is great for business and signs up customers fast. Businesses have to keep providing value, or they lose their subscribers. I guarantee you, there are a lot of VCs that would be very excited for any new idea involving bringing SaaS to a new market. Even Ford is doing SaaS for their new autonomy software (you won’t be able to buy autonomy from Ford, only subscribe to it on a vehicle you’ve bought).
Playing the devil’s advocate, it may not work in stls because 1) the 3D printing community doesn’t like to pay for stuff and 2) it really isn’t that large.
I think the idea has merit. I have no idea how to take that idea and turn it into a working site. My first guess is that it will require a lot of expensive software engineers and then it will have to be burdened with VC money until it grows as big as it can get, before one of these new ipo like devices let you cash out. Silicone valley is weird.
Still. Someone could probably dump their soul into it and come out a big winner or loser. I’ve seen much stupider ideas take hold.
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Feels like it is close, I am obviously not the one to solve the problem. My brain really gets cooking thinking about it.
The streaming services for music seem fair from the consumer side, sounds like the content creator side isn’t so rosey though. I am an occasional listener to most of the services, but the one I use the most I do pay for.
Part of the way the music streaming services make money is by not paying the content creators, or paying them a tiny amount. (My brother is a professional composer/performer and has stuff on Spotify and some others.)
I doubt that I’d be a happy content creator under that model. But then, I’ve settled for a “day job” with a regular salary and health care benefits.
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