of course not… if you have bad design in lead screws, or x axis carriage design , z wobble etc will always rear its ugly head.
However, assuming the build is solid, the design of it is good, and everything is tight and precise, auto bed leveling will mitigate the next biggest issue faced by 3d printers. Layer #1.
If layer 1 is off, the rest of the print may as well be scrapped. Not always, but a great first layer sets itself up for the rest of the print.
I have not had a bad experience with auto leveling, I have used both methods and just prefer manual leveling. Manual leveling is easy, and it only needs to be done once when the printer is first turned on. I have printed for days without needing to readjust it. The printer does not need to go through the auto leveling sequence at the start of each print.
To use the manual method, it takes it requires the extra step of leveling the bed and this can be a challenge. I have only had to do this once since I built my printer a year ago. I feel a level bed improves the quality of the prints no matter what method you use. I was fortunate to be forced to learn the manual method, because I still prefer to use it today.
For most people I would recommend using Auto-Leveling. These type things are what is making 3D printing usable to the masses. I’m sure some day someone will make one as easy to use as a paper printer is today. But for us who like to build things from scratch, and take things apart to learn how they work, manual leveling is still an option.
Dave
Looks really good! I was already looking into adjusting the p3steel design for milling.
http://reprap.org/wiki/P3Steel
I have a friend who owns one and they are really good and there are already tons of add ons. However the frame is made to be lasercut with very tight tolerances that a mill probably won’t be able to achieve.
I dont disagree with what you say dave, and I ertainly didnt intend to hijack this thread in to an Auto Bed Leveling discussion.
While I also agree that its quicker to print without it. When i added it to my makerfarm it took about 2-3 minutes at the start of the print to hit all the points.
I think i have such a strong feeling for ABL because of a few main reasons…
- Most ABL systems only touch the four corners. However The one I used had 9 touch points. The bed can have variations much more significant than the four corners. Almost all heated beds heat horribly unevenly. Ive seen a set temp of 100 degrees C, be 99 at the center and as low as 45-60 on the outside (a big part of warping parts, of course a heated build chamber is a key play too). a 50 degree swing in bed temp can adversely affect how much expansion the bed undergoes and thus the distance from the nozzle. So my 9 point ABL routine caught most of that.
- Mostly eliminates my need to wait around for the first 10-15 minutes of a print. I know its going to work. Where as on my taz 5, which is widely considered to be one of the best printers on the market sub 3000$ is not perfect due to imperfections in PEI (the print surface they use on top of glass).
- Any system where you have the ability to change extruder carriages (like the taz, or my soon to arrive gcreate) there will be minor differences (its up to 1mm on my taz) in how high the new extruder carriage sits above the bed, due to nozzle size changes etc. The way Ryan is designing this, it appears as though there will be some system in place to change toolheads out, which immediately makes ABL an important thing (or every time you change toolheads you have to relevel).
Please dont take this as me arguing with you Dave, or others. Its just a topic that I think deservers discussion, and since there are probably quite a few folks that havent either built or used a 3d printer interested in this one, just because Ryan is making it, may not be fully aware of its strengths and weaknesses.
I still use manual leveling on every one of my prints, even my taz. There hasnt been a very elegant solution for it yet.
Thanks for jumping in the fray. I like to discuss and see how everyones opinions adjust the narrative. (wow i sound like a politician) You are right… if 3d printers ever become mainstream, ABL will be a requirement. I was selling my makerfarm and showing it to a mom and son who had “heard” about 3d printing. After expaining it, they quickly realized they didnt have the skillset for it. Those of us that print certainly realize how many variables there are. Once those variables become a non factor, my mom could have one in her house. Until then, not happenin 
Does anyone know of a small form factor 40w or so laser i could buy? then i could laser cut MDF ? lol
When I was at robo and we first implemented the auto level it helped the masses drastically. As long as we shipped with the xz axis fairly straight, people could actually print out of the box. A huge first for us at the time. We were so excited to use it when the code came out it was funny. We all tweaked printers to mess them up and see if it would still print. One of the guys , Jason or Austin, was sticking plastic forks under the bed and getting that thing like 20 degrees off level. It was pretty exciting. The original design was going to use washers as switches I convinced them to do the current end stops. My little contribution.
Exactly, I am not a fan of those tabs either. You need a laser and exact thickness material. Both of which aren’t all that easy to come by for me.
Not sure how good of an idea the mdf is. Mine is just barely strong enough, might not hold up long term. I tried a ply frame, It did not work. Plastic or Carbon fiber would be awesome. Anything under 7-8mm thick.
People who are new hate bed levelling, but it’s often because they are trying to level a bed that can’t be leveled. Either the bed is warped, or (on a prusa style) the two Z motors are at different heights, or the whole frame is racked.
Now that I know what I’m doing (sort of) with my printer, I was able to print most of the MPCNC without leveling again, so autotramming or autoleveling would have just been another area for mistakes to creep into my prints.
What I would like, and I think new people would like is:
- A solid frame, which I got when I added the wanhao Z braces. This printer looks like it has some good support, and would stay square, so that’s good
- A good way to either keep the Z motors from moving when the steppers are disabled, or an easy way to get them “blueprinted” again after a bump. I have two pieces of plastic I printed that I use to ensure they are at the same height. Building something like that into the frame, and make it a cinch would really make a difference for me.
- Adjustable Z stop. Something with a screw. Useful if I go from kapton to blue tape, or no tape, or whatever. Just adjust the whole bed up 0.4mm for the difference, and boom, printing as well as before.
I think something with those three things would mean you could go for a month without adjusting the screws under the bed. I also think it would let you “dial in” a really good level, and not mess with it (I’ve never tried autotramming, but I imagine it could be a PITA if it measures a different value each time, and messes up some prints).
I like the screws as well all three axis at screw based zero, the Y is a pain to get to but really who has ever changed that one after the first time?
Frame rigidity is material dependent. I am printing the extruder fan shroud now, last piece, hope it works. Either way I will drop the files here soon and let you guys have at them. If anyone has a major change I will fix and re-release. Maybe start all over though and put a thinner material twist on that itopie!
A 40W laser is going to be a tube style, and they’re about 2 feet long. They look just like this.
Actually this is an 80W tube, so it’s bigger, but you get the idea.
i guess ill wait for the Glowforge to be commercially available
Done for the day, power it up tomorrow. Spent way to long getting the wires pretty, without ever testing it first. You know what that means, I am bound to have a wiring issue.
ToDo
- Minor edit to the mk mount, add some holes to the sides for the power supply, maybe some extra holes for cable ties.
- Release it to you animals.
- Then put the rest of the hardware in the assembly so I can release the BOM.
Not happy with the z home screw, It is going to be a long one…
it looks glorious to me… is the x carriage removeable? swappable for another toolhead?
looks so good man. for any company/person.
Thanks.
It does just snap right off but I didn’t add any fancy quick connectors, because I doubt I will ever swap it, just easier to get to filament issues. I run out all the time and have to dig it out.
I can’t wait to print one in ABS, and put it on eBay
As long as you fix all it’s shortcomings and don’t reference me at all! 
I feel like such a whiny little girl about that but it did piss me off. Maybe I should stop checking my email before coffee, set the tone for the whole day!
The design of the printer is nice and clean. But… i must say it, you have designed a prusa?!?
Overall your design is pretty good, you have lots of talent. But in my opinion is was wasted because you have chose to build a prusa model.
Do not get me wrong, in not where to criticize your printer. But the prusa models are for beginners, and there are always a first printer to be replaced with something better. The only reason of is success is because is easy to understand.
Why you have not chose to design a “top” printer that can be build with the help of your mpcnc?
There are betters mechanical designs to chose for a 3D printer, like corexy, hbot or even a delta.
With an mpcnc is possible to build this type of printer, for example check the SmartrapCore (http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:651117) is a cheap and superior printer that any type of prusa.
The prusa was too many mechanical flaws.
- bed moving on the Y axis, this not allow to print fast and is easy to get artifacts on the print.
- The printer must be small on the Z axis
- not easy to enclosure (very important to print with abs)
- too much unprotected mechanical parts.
- overall they are ugly
This one too: (corexy CNC style):
I’have a Smatrapcore wood (I totally redesign it, because there are some mistakes on the original design: belt touching himself in +Ymax, misalignment of the belts, etc. I use the Andreas’Z axe add-on and the top beast extruder Gunstruder ( http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1247952 ). The main problem is the noise: don’t use plain board to make it, it’s really noisy! I drill big holes everywhere and now it’s a lot better. But for a really cheap ‘second’ printer, I admit than my prints are really clean (way cleaner than all prusa-style printer I saw).
Hmm.
Well I think the speed benefits of the machines you listed are just from the bowden and it’s less moving mass. Which you can’t get with a moving bed, true. Two things about that, I don’t like bowden (stringy, hard on the extruder motor, wastes filament) and I have never successfully printed much faster than 35mm/s without losing strength in the z direction.
With producing parts on 6 printers speed would mean higher profits but on all of my printers layer bonding has not been as strong at high speed, even if I turn up the extrusion temp. Quality over quantity for items I sell. Nice for rapid prototyping not “production”.
I actually love the prusa design, very close to idea in my opinion. Not sure about the artifacts. If I run this one and only get artifacts in the y direction, I will look into it. My other printers have artifacts in the X and Y direction.
I used to use an airwolf and changed out the bowden for a wade’s, parts are on thingiverse. I really didn’t see an advantage to that style. Takes more parts and bearings to build as well.
I don’t print in ABS ever. I much prefer PET it doesn’t seem to have the same need for an enclosure and prints like a dream. Very similar properties, if not preferable to me.
I would love to make another printer. I wasn’t trying to redesign anything I just wanted a better one that was cheaply available. I based this design of the smaller prusa rods so it would be readily available. Makes for an easy project, few parts.
Not a delta fan, they look amazing and are amazing machinery but again, I don’t see an advantage. I also have limited space and rack mount my little print farm.
So in summary. Built as an easily sourced project for my needs. Not trying to out design any of the 1000 printers already saturating the market. As soon as I update the MPCNC I would love to take all the suggestions and build a new printer, but the cnc is my main focus. I need a few more printers for production solves my problem, on to the next.