I agree for the CoreXY section.
1 Like
@Lithium366 was able to get 9-10K with 10mm belts so in a 300mm^3 build so I don’t think the 9mm is going to be a major limiting factor as far as accelerations.
2 Likes
I try once a year or so. I have to say. Nearly ever US company I try to work with is extremely difficult in comparison to my other vendors. I know that will piss people off but when you need to send multiple emails take multiple bullshit phone call get all sorts of trash emails from here on out it is not worth begging them to spend more money on their product. As an example I can email a bearing company in China and ask for them to go get me some special custom 7.2mm belt to add to my order they send an invoice, no questions asked every time. The difference would scare most US manufactures if they tried it.
Elaire the collet guys I buy from in the US, top-notch. Email, I get prompt reply, a date and an invoice. Perfect. Quality products, never once have I had a single issue, never once have I looked elsewhere for a collet. Might be able to get them from some other place for a 1/10ththe price but why bother I like this company.
2 Likes
There are oodles of space on the Z axis in the XY plane. The only place I try to save a little space is in the Z direction (belt mounts). So to simply the BOM I think 9mm is fine here if you were trying to save some XY space. I think mounting space is the same no matter the width.
To be very clear I would love to buy US made I hate knowing how far all my stuff gets shipped. They just do not make it easy.
Another quick example. I tried to get US filament. I have to fill out a spread sheet, email it in. With for an invoice and current shipping total, pay it and wait a week or two. That is for a company with reasonable pricing… On the other hand, Hatchbox (US stocked) I go into a special vendor/bulk site, place an order with all the shipping totals (cheaper) and it shows up three days later. I am willing to pay more, but my time is far more valuable.
2 Likes
no printed parts but here are these weights for anyone intrested…
Orbiter V2 and Filament Sensor - 154g
Rapido HF Hot end with nozzle - 46g
3030 fan - 8g
4040 fan - 20g
ebb36 - 13g
grand total - 241g plus printed parts
Plus bearing block, not sure how to factor in belt mass but Even leaving it out we end up near 1hp peak reasonable accel
1 Like
Not pissed off here. Even more so after seeing how hard you have tried but they just refuse to reasonably work with you. It is what it is. The fact you keep trying once a year shows more than enough to me!
1 Like
Now imagine hanging 2 5015s from there as well like a lot of them do and they still run those crazy accelerations lol. input shaper is a wonderful thing LOL
1 Like
Good point X an Y forces are very different. That means Y must be a lot more than the X trying to accelerate the super heavy linear rail as well as two more bearing block and hardware. 9mm for sure.
3 Likes
After seeing one able to hit 10K with 10mm I don’t see 9mm as a limiting factor for us at all so I agree with the 9mm
Excuse my very basic modeling here. If you went with 6mm belt and wanted it embedded inside, then can’t you design up a part that sticks a tongue into the extrusion groove to grab onto the belt?
This may not work for the application, but it came to mind and I wanted to present it in case it does spark an idea some how.
1 Like
IF considering Z axis with 6mm belt…
My slot nuts are too thick, but something like this with nuts or tapped-square-washer thin enough (~2.5mm) to allow belt to slip between nut and extrusion?
If thinner nuts not possible, then CNC, Dremel or chopsaw extrusion channel deeper where belt terminates? Carve out a 1mm deep well in channel near belt termination for slot nut and belt to fit.
Maybe with 3D printed part similar to Matt’s that loops back belt before securing part and belt with same M5 bolt… Similar to existing Z endstop
Avoid oily grub screws, use thread locker 
Less linear rails like Mike pointed out would be nice, provided Z quality doesn’t noticably suffer. But…
I don’t know if this Z belt change gains any more usable XY space for the same area though. Given location and orientation of XY steppers, rails and XY mounts.
I suppose let’s save the Z belts for later. I do not think there is any reason to try and save room at the cost of adding to the BOM (belts idlers and pulleys), but when we get there we can revisit. We have all the room in the world down there, but if it is easier it is a good thing.
Stepper position AB
*The blue side shows the current setup. Downside, a slightly more cluttered front face. Upside more belt contact with drive teeth.
This also takes a bit more room (yellow circle is not needed if we just use an idler on that side)…but that room is wasted anyway shown with the front of the extruder fan already poking out the front.
*Green shows the stepper in the back corner. Downside, less drive teeth contact unless we add idlers and hardware to wrap it more, larger rear corner parts to accomodate. Upside, it looks cleaner, slightly closer wires.
*This is the same if we have a top plate or not, we can talk about top plate next.
I vote keep them up front for less hardware, more pulley contact.
1 Like
This is something I personally wouldn’t mind. It would be a lot cleaner look and the wiring would be a ton easier, much less need for extending wires if putting electronics on the back. I do think the added idler to get full teeth contact is a good thing and at the cost of those I cant see it adding enough to really make a huge difference.
Just an idea for visual refrence. I have the cad pulled up for my E5+ project and its a good look at belt routing for this. I know its on top but the same idea can be had with the stepper underneath…
Link to cad files if anyone wants a closer look
2 Likes
I like this a lot and second the vote to having the steppers in the back. We have more room in the back corners to fill up and having the extra room and flexibility in the front would be nice.
I could be convinced either way really.
1 Like
You still need to get an endstop up there or on the moving gantry so there will still be wires up there.
Well I guess we could home to Y max.
1 Like
Id much rather run an endstop wire than extend stepper wires. I solder the endstops either way so that’s not a big deal at all. or another option is to home to Y max. then no need for wires up front at all
lol you said it while I was saying it
1 Like
Personally like the look of the open front. But if optimizing for cost, performance, monitoring, access and maintenance…
Personally like being able to easily see stepper temps.
Like being able to easily observe/monitor healthy belt motion around pulleys. This seems easier if steppers remain towards front?
Ideally would like all steppers out of the heated chamber. e.g. flip XY stepper up above the extrusion. Maybe mount steppers to reference XY plate, directly or via printed parts. Belts goes above reference plate. Goal being that belts move closer to exterior and extrusion no longer dictates/constrains steppers and belts need to be within the extrusion.
Another way to obtain higher heat while keeping the steppers cool… Don’t overly optimize reducing space within the chamber. Instead thermally isolate using optional removable double/triple cell honeycomb blinds within the chamber to isolate steppers from the volume that needs to be hot. This been done before, or should I patent this one 
Honeycomb blind based bottom attaches to bed support, air gap from heated bed. Top of blinds attaches to XY reference plate.
Personally trying to keep the rear clear for venting setup and/or multi-material and/or infinite-mirror.
I don’t think that is easy to isolate them without being significantly out of the plane of the gantry. The only way that could work is move them out back. That would take holes in your chamber though for belts to pass through.
Up top would just move them higher, hotter right? Heat rises, unless it is circulated, then everything is hot.
With that said steppers can handle a ton of heat. I am not sure it is anything to worry about as long as your prints can handle it.
If you are thinking little stepper isolation chambers I don’t think it really matters where they are.
That falls into the special catagory for sure. does adding a little extra volume matter if the heater is circulated? The better the insulation the less it woudl matter.
We are designing with enclosing as an option but definitely not going to for a super insulated extreme chamber as a default. That makes ASA and ABS easier but everything cooler harder.
1 Like